? on powder for 9mm.

[RDF-KY]

Hi

I have searched this forum and found info that I didn't think about. I'm going to load up some rounds for my CZ-75, CZ-75B, and M & P 9c. I have a Dillon 550 and have 231, Titegroup,Bullseye, and Power Pistol. Wanting to work up loads for target pratice and would like try IDPA. The more I read the more I don't know were to start, should I try one powder and different bullets first before trying another powder? I started out going to use 115 & 124gr bullets, but found that alot of people use the 147gr. I bought the Power Pistol because in the Hornady manual it is list for all of their 9mm bullets, but haven't found were it used by shooters, when working up a load say 4.8gr ,then should i go to 4.9gr and try or jump up more like 5.2gr? I have loaded 38 cowboy loads, but not 9mm.

Thanks

Rick

[Fullauto_Shooter]

Hi

I have searched this forum and found info that I didn't think about. I'm going to load up some rounds for my CZ-75, CZ-75B, and M & P 9c. I have a Dillon 550 and have 231, Titegroup,Bullseye, and Power Pistol. Wanting to work up loads for target pratice and would like try IDPA. The more I read the more I don't know were to start, should I try one powder and different bullets first before trying another powder? I started out going to use 115 & 124gr bullets, but found that alot of people use the 147gr. I bought the Power Pistol because in the Hornady manual it is list for all of their 9mm bullets, but haven't found were it used by shooters, when working up a load say 4.8gr ,then should i go to 4.9gr and try or jump up more like 5.2gr? I have loaded 38 cowboy loads, but not 9mm.

Thanks

Rick

Rick,

First off - welcome to the forum!! Great to have another new member aboard.

I've loaded a couple different recipes with some of the bullets and powders you listed - so, I'll list two of my favorites (both of which make at least 128PF in my Glock 34).

124gr FMJ (Zero, I think)

4.0gr Titegroup

WSP Primer

Mixed Brass

1.13 OAL

115gr FMJ (Winchester)

4.4gr W231

WSP Primer

Mixed Brass

1.13 OAL

Lots of folks swear by the 147gr bullets and I've used them with good success, but with the cost of bullets skyrocketing - the lighter weight stuff is a bit more economical. The lighter bullets will generally deliver a snappier recoil whereas the heavier bullet's recoil is usually described as more sluggish - it all boils down to personal preference.

As for load development, I'd recommend going up 0.1 grain at a time with pistol loads (to test both velocity and accuracy).

Again, welcome to the forum and best of luck.

[yoshidaex]

Welcome

As far as powder choice is concerned, the faster it burns (Clays, bullseye, etc, etc) the recoil seems slow/soft/sluggish with certain bullet combinations. The slower burning powders will give you a snappy/sharp/fast type of recoil.

For example: I have 2 loads of 40 s&w. One with titegroup and one with clays. Both meet the 170 power factor (bullet weight x velocity = PF). The clays recoils soft but the sights return just a tad slower. While the titegroup load the recoil is sharp and slightly heavier but the sights return quickly. Google for a powder burn chart and see where your powder sits. Make sure you use a few burn charts since manufacturers don't keep their burn charts up to date.

But like Fullauto Shooter mentioned its all personal preference. I used to like the slow/soft recoil of clays but after shooting a fast cycling open gun for the better part of the year, i'm gonna go with the titegroup load for the faster sight return.

As for load developement, increments of 0.1 grains is hard to acheive unless you weight each charge individually. Thats too much work for me and considering the equipment I use isn't ultra accurate (I get powder variations of +/- of 0.15 grains) i'll just load up in 0.2 grain increments if I'm in the mood

Edited February 3, 2008 by yoshidaex

[AustinMike]

Titegroup or 231 would probably be best out of what you listed. Titegroup works pretty well, but can get sooty at lower pressures. It burns REALLY hot too. Power Pistol isn't so great for minor loads - it's better for driving hot loads. I experimented with it in my 9mm major open gun and I'm using the rest in my major .40 loads. Everybody's got their favorite pet loads, it takes some experimentation to figure out what you like. Don't make big jumps in the charge weight! Easy does it, check for pressure signs, and use a chrono!

[revchuck]

Rick - Loading 9x19 is a whole 'nother animal from .38 Special cowboy loads.

Any of the powders you mentioned, other than Power Pistol, will work fine. Trust the loading manuals for charges...but not for velocities. I've got nine 4" .38/.357 revolvers, and there's about 80 fps difference among them with the same load.

I'd go with 124-125 grain bullets to start, since that's what the 9x19 was designed for. Go with FMJ bullets, since you can usually get them cheaper, and load to the overall length (OAL) shown in the manual you're using. OAL is extremely important with 9x19 loads; since they're so short, making them any shorter means a big increase in pressure. Load the starting load and also a load about halfway between start and max, and chronograph them. If you go with the 124-125 grain bullets, you'll need to get over 1,000 fps with them to be legal for IDPA (and USPSA). Most of us go for about 1030-1050 fps. If you need to, go up to the max load - it's still safe, and your CZs are strong guns.

Welcome to the Forum!

[DougCarden]

I cannot recommend W 231 higher....it is one of the most accurate powders in 9x19 and doesnt have the negatives of some of the other powders.

DougC

[toast]

I am also extremely happy with 231.

[RDF-KY]

Thanks for the info.

[Allgoodhits]

I cannot recommend W 231 higher....it is one of the most accurate powders in 9x19 and doesnt have the negatives of some of the other powders.

DougC

+1 WW231 Probably 4.1+/- for 125gr & 4.4+/- for 115gr . Check manuals and test.

MJ

[Joe D]

Here is one of the "standard" loads for IDPA - 3.0 gr of Titegroup with a 147 gr bullet OAL 1.140". A good practice load is 3.5 gr of TG with a 125 gr. TC lead bullet same OAL. Goes 1050 fps out of a G34.

[TonyT]

Don't forget good old Bullseye. It works well in 9mm with either lead, plated or jacketd bullets. It may not be as clean as VV N-320 but it meters very well and provides excellent accuracy.

[19852]

I like the middle-weight bullets myself. I think Angus Hobdell uses the 125gr Zero JHP with VV N320. W 231 is a great powder to start with, only downside I've ever heard of is tempreture sensitive.

[Graham Smith]

Rick,

I'm pretty new to this game myself, but since your situation is a lot like mine, I'll tell you what I found out.

IDPA and IPSC both use a Power Factor to group shooters into Major and Minor categories. As a newbie, I had absolutely no intention of trying to compete in Major, so I decided to work up loads on the that basis. Minor is a PF of 125 and is calculated as the bullet weight x velocity / 1000. That means you will need to get a 115 gr bullet going faster than a 147 gr bullet to make the same PF.

After looking a number of different powders, I found that the fast burning powers seemed to be a better choice for a large number of reasons. This lead me to look at Titegroup and Clays (not Universal Clays). After quite a bit of study, it seemed that Titegroup best suited me.

I then bought a small quantity of 115 gr, 124 gr, and 147 gr bullets and loaded them up for a PF of around 130 and went to the range. I wasn't happy with the 147 gr bullets at all so I decided that I would leave them alone for now and save them for a time when I might want to start pushing up the PF a bit. And of the two, I preferred the "feel" of the 124 gr. I was probably also influenced by the fact that the 9mm was originally designed for that weight bullet and that the barrel of my gun (a stock Glock 19) had a twist rate that (some experts said) was designed for that bullet.

So, then I bought a bunch of 124 gr Berry plated bullets and went to work. Over a long weekend at a defensive pistol class, I went through about 900 of those suckers and found that they performed extremely well for me. I would probably have stuck with them if I had not tried the 121 gr IFP from Montana Gold - that bullet just made me smile and I recently bought a case of them for less than it would cost me for the same qty of Berry 124's.

I hope this gives you something to work from. Just remember, your mileage may vary, and this offer is not available in all states.

[RDF-KY]

Thanks

I have bought some 100 packs of bullets to try. I'm wanting to order a 1000 pc box of 124gr but haven't desided on the bullett shap, I don't know if it makes a differents or not.

[Graham Smith]

I have bought some 100 packs of bullets to try. I'm wanting to order a 1000 pc box of 124gr but haven't desided on the bullett shap, I don't know if it makes a differents or not.

According to many, hollow points are more accurate since the weight is shifted to rear somewhat, but you need to be sure you are not violating any state or local laws (e.g. NJ has a "ban" on hollow points). I have also seen it stated that flat point or truncated cone (like the 121 IFP's I use) fly better.

You should also decide if you want to shoot lead, plated, or jacketed as the loads are different. Cost is also a factor in this, but so is where you are going to be shooting. Some ranges (particularly inside) won't allow lead bullets for safety reasons. There are also differences between plated and jacketed as to whether or not the base of the bullet is enclosed. And it just seems to go on like this for days...

Here is a simple suggestion, check out a few well known suppliers (e.g. Powder Valley, Montana Gold, Berry, etc) and see what they have. Then give them a call and see what they say sells the most. You may find that they will sell you smaller batches of different bullets. You might also want to check out www.midwayusa.com, they have a pretty wide selection of reloading components and often have small bulk packs. It's more expensive than buying a case at a time from one of the others, but it will give you a lot to choose from.

Lastly, I made the mistake when I started of trying to create the "perfect" IDPA load - even to the point of buying a used chrono. It took me a while to realize that I was setting my sights way too high and that I was much better off just building something that was comfortable to shoot at first and worrying about the small details later. I've shot a few thousand reloads since then and have a better idea what I need and have had time to shop around for some bargains to build up my supply. Now, reloading has become a lot more fun.

Edited February 9, 2008 by Graham Smith