Barcode score labels coming in next EzWinScore

[Rob Boudrie]

I do wish that the order of penalties was different. ie., A-B-C-D-Miss-N/S-Proc-NPM and then any stage specifics such as extra shot, extra hit. that way the items, at least to me, would flow better.

Roger Maier is the person to talk to if you want to get a basic change to the user interface such as this into the product.

[Jim Norman]

Alan,

We have a word or excel document that has the columns and spaces in it. We just add or subtract the requisit number of rows and type in the T#s

Looks a bit like

Stage # Stage Name

Tgt A B C D M NPM N/S Proc Extra Comment

STL x

T1

T2

T3

Totals

RO Shooter Time

[wgnoyes]

What are you using for score sheet design?

The score sheet design should match the data entry flow. (of course you knew that already)

The scoresheet design of the EZWS scoresheets does currently match data entry flow.

[Alan Meek]

What are you using for score sheet design?

The score sheet design should match the data entry flow. (of course you knew that already)

The scoresheet design of the EZWS scoresheets does currently match data entry flow.

I thought it did, but as I am at work and don't have a copy of EZWinScore handy I did not want to speculate.

[Jim Norman]

Ez Winscore may well provide a scoresheet that follows EzWinScores input, BUT as far as I know and I will admit to not being the computer savvy person of the year, I can't make Ez put 7 stages on one sheet (both sides of 8-1/2 x 11) with our clubs required waiver, plus the shooter info.

If Ez would output the individual scoresheets into a scalable format that I could cut and paste onto our form, I could see it being useful. Then again, maybe it is just that we have done it this way for so long. Understand I am not against change, but someone has got to show m the benefit. For a club match, I don't see half page single scoresheets. HTere is the cost first off and then there is the collating as well as the inevitable lost sheets. Now all I have to woory about is not having a time or all the hits on one of seven stages for a given shooter. and the sheet is likely to have a minimum of information to figure out whose it is.

If we go to single sheets per stage, we will need to make sure everyone fills out their sheet on every stage. It just doesn't happen. I think that for a Level2 where one has a dedicated ROP staff or for a club that has dedicated staff it will work and maybe much better than what we do. I just don't see it for us.

I will try and upload a scoresheet tonight to show what we are doing.

Jim

[wgnoyes]

I print half-sheet scoresheets out of ezws, turn the stack of paper around in the printer and print them again. So you for example will have 2 stage-7 scoresheets on the same page, albeit upside down from one another. Then I take the sheets to kinko's and run off 35 copies of each page (assuming I'll get a maximum of 70 competitors) and cut the copies down the middle with the flatbed paper cutter in the store to end up with half sheet scoresheets exactly the same size and format as at the Nationals. Total cost about $20.

All bets are off if you have a 3-gun tournament or multigun match; then I have my own powerpoint library of scoresheet samples to cobble something up from (I've uploaded them here before), but I use EZWS scoresheets as much as possible, because it's one less thing for me to do if the program will do it, and the scoresheets are customized for the stages.

I don't have problems getting people to write their names on scoresheets (which are waiting for them at the stages). For the most part, my people will even remember to write their competitor numbers down as well. But I'm definitely going to try the walkin barcode label approach!

[NMBOpen]

Can it be set up so that EZWin can optionally print the stage barcode info when it generates scoresheets (V3.04 )? Then the labels would only need shooter ID info. Retain current option for shooter only or shooter/stage.

[wgnoyes]

Well, I've scored a match now with barcode labels and a scanner. You still want to have scoresheets grouped together by stage so that when you put in a bunch of them, you can print out the verify sheet for those scoresheets and wrap it up as a bundle to hand off to whoever is actually doing the verifies. And then after that, they still stay together as a bundle for filing. So therefore, you really don't need another barcode on the scoresheet itself, I wouldn't think.

Edited January 25, 2008 by wgnoyes

[Rob Boudrie]

Can it be set up so that EZWin can optionally print the stage barcode info when it generates scoresheets (V3.04 )? Then the labels would only need shooter ID info. Retain current option for shooter only or shooter/stage.

I don't see any benefit to this - if you're using barcode, the Stage+Competitor number is a single barcode, and one scan operation.

Convince me

Rob

[NMBOpen]

EZWin Score 3.03 now available from USPSA website. Installed and created a barcoded label sample to test. My scanner (Metrologic 5145 Eclipse) can read the USPSATEST sample, but doesn't recognize the barcode on the labels, using the same IDAutomation font. Will submit fax of my samples to Metrologic support for analysis.

[Rob Boudrie]

Please let me know how the Metrologic scanner issue works out. The only two barcodes we have tested with are the two listed on the EzWinScore page (Acan and Litel LC-80).

[NMBOpen]

Please let me know how the Metrologic scanner issue works out. The only two barcodes we have tested with are the two listed on the EzWinScore page (Acan and Litel LC-80).

The Metrologic scanner is good. The problem was print quality on my inkjet printer that was at the end of life on the black ink cartridge. Wide bars were running together, which wasn't obvious until I enlarged the image 200%. A change of ink cartridges (HP57) cured that. Metrologic tech support has been very helpful.

I bought my scanner at Newegg.com http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?...N82E16838130026

Edited February 4, 2008 by NMCOpen

[Jim Norman]

OK, Dumb Question Time.

Not being all that computer savvy, why do I want Barcodes for a club match?

Our current proceedure is:

Shooters arrive and sign up at the trailer (no power or onsite computing)

The scoresheet we use is one single 8-1/2 x 11 inch sheet with seven stages printed out on it. THe shooter fills out his/her info on the top portion of the front, Name, USPSA Number, new address, Division, Class, Catagory, etc. We squad the shooters and each squad gets a clip board with the squads 7-12 member's scoresheets on it, that travels with them through the entire match. At the end of the match, the sheets are collected and the stats guy takes them home to score.

I think that if we were running a match that had onsite computing and pre-registration as well as single stage scoresheets, this function would be good, perhaps even great, as for our level, I am not sure I see a benefit.

Jim

[wgnoyes]

Okay, dumb answer time.

You don't have to use it.

With your combined single scoresheet, in fact, you can't use it practically.

But I print ezws scoresheets. They're excellent and frankly, I think it's easier to key in a squad's worth of scoresheets for a single stage and wrap them up in the verify sheet to hand off, rather than selecting a competitor and jumping from stage to stage (which would also mean I couldn't have match results available while people were still there).

So because I have individual scoresheets, I've created a 10-stage barcode label match file where every competitor has the name of "Name: _________" such that this appears at the top of each label. (I want people to write their names on the labels anyway, in case the scanner fails, and people do this without problem.) When I started this a couple of months ago, I printed out 100 competitors worth of generic barcode labels, formatted vertically on the labels page. I printed it to a .pdf file, and then printed the file to labels.

In fact, here it is: generic_barcode_competitors_labels.pdf

So at registration, people come up and write their particulars down on a numbered registration sheet and I hand them the corresponding label strips; scoresheets are at the stages. Now no one has to remember their competitor numbers or irritate me by not bothering to try, and the possibility of keying in the wrong score for the wrong competitor because of a finger glitch is absolutely eliminated.

For the next month, I go back to the remaining stack of label strips, look to see where it starts, and print from the .pdf file the labels I need to replenish the stack, and away we go.

That's how we use it.

Edited February 9, 2008 by wgnoyes

[Rob Boudrie]

I probably wouldn't bother with barcodes for a local match where each shooter's scores are on a single sheet. This feature is far more useful at a big match where each stage is on a separate scoresheet and competitor are generally pre-registered.

[Flexmoney]

I'm looking to get this going at one of our local clubs. If it happens, I'll report back.

[Flexmoney]

Here is some back and forth (call it brainstorming) that we are having in a local email. I thought I'd share it here as I am sure others could benefit...and maybe add some thoughts too.

For the club in question, we are talking about the bar code thing and also getting the results done while at the match. (common now is that somebody takes the scores with them and does them at home on their computer)

This is just a cut and paste from the last email (so, you might have to read it like it's a back and forth email exchange. )

Those are valid points.

"Let me know what you guys think. This topic is wide open to further discussion."

Most certainly. Lets throw ideas at the wall and see if anything sticks.

I'll try add some comments (in Blue).

[edit to add] While typing this, I noticed that we are talking about a couple different issues here. One being the bar code reader, another being doing the scores at the range. Just something to keep in mind.

Kyle F.

In a message dated 4/21/2008 9:00:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, xxx writes:

Hey Kyle,

While I see your point about the barcode reader, I don't think it would be cost effective to buy a reader, print individual score sheets, or buy/print labels.

The cost involved is very minor.

The bar code readers that USPSA is recommending are $35. Even if you get two, that is only a few match fees worth of expense. The readers would be a one time purchase (well, I'd guess they'd have to last longer than a shot timer). An USPSA program that is doing thousands of dollars a year won't feel that.

Rayner's, for example, already prints individual scoresheets (on color-coded paper even) at their monthly matches. They use the scoresheet generator in EZ to get a template, then they take that off to the printers (I think they go to Staples for printing). At C-ville, Anderson had the scoresheets printed up at Kinko's.

I think the cost involved would be the same, or minimal. It might take a bit more paper, but there are a few benefits over the generic "all-on-one-sheet" versions. (I was going to talk more on that, but I am drifting off-topic...lol)...

Labels are cheap too. They are just address labels...pretty cheap.

I have never had an issue with entering scores by hand. Even when we have 40-50 shooters (which is uncommon).

Me neither. It's just boring and tedious. It gets old as the years go by.

It only takes an hour or two (give or take) and I have always had scores done the very same day (usually within 4 hours of getting home from the match).

I'm probably slow, but it seemed to always take me two to three hours to get the scores in.

It takes me a good bit of time just to input the shooters into the system for the match. Every time I did so, I always wished that I could have just somehow put them into the computer right as they were signing in at registration. (that is making a case for having a stats officer right at the range doing work). At C-ville, where never had a setup that would allow for that really. With the new building, we have good power and a fairly comfortable place for a stats officer to work. All it would take is having a computer there, and (for C-ville) there are more and more laptops around now (I know that Chad just started doing scores on his laptop).

The time and effort it takes to bang on the keys / click the mouse is not a big deal. Besides we're only talking about once a month.

I'll bet the time of actually punching in of the scores for the stages/shooters would be cut in half with a bar code reader...maybe better. I'd compare it to loading on a 650 with a case feeder. On a 650, the right hand never has to leave the handle, and the left hand just feeds a bullet onto the case. With a bar code reader, the right hand can stay on the numeric keypad and the left hand can run the scoresheets under the reader.

Not only would it be faster, it would be more accurate as well.

Maybe this would be beneficial at the Level II & III matches where they have 100-300 shooters, and errors are more costly if not found immediately.

I hadn't thought of printing out and posting the scores at the range until you mentioned it. (I envisioned somebody doing the work, then handing the laptop to the match director (if needed) to post on the internet. Chad mentioned something about getting a printer for the range...I am starting to see the light there.

If you posted at the range, then shooters could look and see if they had any errors in scoring...right then and there. That would save some of the back and forth emails...that can generate bad feelings between the shooter and the stats person sometimes. Having immediate results sure would be nice.

Printing them out would take maybe 15 minutes from last shot fired (as long as stats is putting in scores as the match goes along). It would just take a few minutes to get the last shooter in, then the scores can be right off to the printer.

I also have not decided that I like the idea of the stats person (myself) shooting through in order to do the scores at the range. Reasons being that I like shooting the match with my friends (and they like shooting with me) not to mention being in a hurry is never helpful to the fine art of shooting well.

I can see wanting to shoot with friends. That is a big part of the game for some. (others might be good with it)

Well, the stats officer would not have to hurry. They could easily take 20 (or more) minutes per stage and still be well ahead of the shooter feeding scoresheets to them by the end of the match. In fact, I'll be that the stats officer could shoot with their friends up to about the last stage or two. Then they could shoot first, then go put in scores. (which, should only take a half and hour to an hour now, right?).

How would these scores be displayed at the range ? A computer monitor is too small to adequately display scores to more than 1 or 2 people at a time. Printing results on paper could get expensive considering the six different divisions would need to be printed separately.

As I mentioned, I hadn't thought of putting up scores at the range until you brought it up. To me, it was a data entry thing...and getting the work done by the time the gate hits us in the ass on the way out. (one less thing for the Match Director to have to worry about)

I don't see much expense here though, if we'd want to get a printer for the range. They are cheap to buy. And, printing out 6 pages for the finals of each division, and another page for the overall on each stage would be quick, cheap and easy.

Another nice thing there is...I'll bet it would keep a few more around to help with tear-down...even the guys that like to skip (but are all about the results). In the time it takes to post the scores, the match could be put away (I am always amazed at how fast a squad can breakdown a stage and put it away). And, many would stick around for 15-20 to see.

E-mail is still free and most everyone these days has access to it. Why not take advantage of that ? It can also be posted to a web-site, which we have access to as well.

Yeah...no reason to stop doing that. One aspect we've been talking about is getting the data entered. Another is posting at the range (which we could do if the data was entered at the range). We'd still, of course, email and post results.

Let me know what you guys think. This topic is wide open to further discussion.

[wgnoyes]

The scanners that cost $35 are LED-based scanners; not laser-based, and they hold up better. The mechanics of it, though, are that you have a stack of scoresheets to your left along with the scanner. You pick up the scanner, hold it near the barcode (within an inch) and press the trigger to scan the label, then put it back down and go on. You'll probably find like I did that it's not any faster; it may actually be a bit slower. (Unless your shooters don't write down competitor numbers on their scoresheets, in which case it's a WHOLE LOT faster!) BUT, it absolutely eliminates the possibility of calling up the wrong competitor when entering a given score.

If you want something on a stand that you can wave the scoresheet under (which is how I thought it would run too), those are laser-based scanners and they cost somewhat more.

I've scored a couple of matches with barcode, and scored plenty of them the regular way. I can take it either way.

Edited April 23, 2008 by wgnoyes

[lneel]

One thing I do to speed things up and as to not get a cramp is to turn the barcode scanner to stay on and just hang it off the side of the table. I then just drag the scoresheet barcode under it and enter the time/penalties. I use it for local matches mainly just to keep from having to sort them by stage. Makes it a bit easier. For a match with more than 50 people I don't think I would do it any other way.

[Flexmoney]

Yeah...I was figuring on mounting it somehow so that the sheets could be ran right under the scanner. We always have plenty of 1x2's (target sticks). I thought of screwing on to the table or something, then rubber banding the scanner to the stick...or whatever works best.

??

[Rob Boudrie]

If you spring for a laser barcode scanner, you cna get one with a stand that holds it up.

When configuring it using the "Setup codes" in the booklet, you need:

- Recognize CODE39 [a very common barcode format, generally enabled in the default setup]

- No carriage return at the end of the barcode (otherwise, you'll start out positioned in the box for B hits rather than A hits)