DPMS aquired by Cerberus

[scirocco38s]

Maybe now DPMS will start turning out some quality stuff!

That certainly has NOT been my experience with my several ARs from DPMS. .

DPMS puts out a very nice AR - and other components. Perhaps without the glitter of some but tight QC and very reasonable prices.

Not my experience, sorry.

DPMS uses very few MIL SPEC parts in their AR's. They make OK platforms for play guns, but they are not taken seriously by tactical and LE units. Critical operations like carrier key staking is often weak. Do they have chrome bores standard? .556 or .223 chambers? M&P bolts. No. No. No.

My personal experiences and those of friends are that DPMS makes an OK gun that strives to deliver, but rarely does.

After the last fiasco where they douldn't get 2 JP triggers to stop doubling on two different varmint guns we wrote them off the "good" list.

For quality second to none in AR's, look at Noveske, MSTN, LMT, Knights, and even lowly old Colt. Colt is STILL the preferred AR manufacturer for LE duty because their stuff just plain works and the parts used are MIL-SPEC where it count.

Anthony... I bow to your obviously superior knowledge... I must admit my opinion is limited to the few hundred I have built on DPMS base guns or DPMS components. All I can testify to is my own experience and reports from another several hundred shooters who I have met or shot with that use DPMS.

Anthony, Unlike Merlin, I do not bow to your superior knnowledge. You bring up things about the guns that any competent hobbyist could have fixed easily. Colt is only perferred because of price and the armorers are comfortable with them. Is the gun setup for battle, maybe not. Will they run as long as the others, more than likely. As for mil-spec, that is nothing special and remember that colts stuff wasnt mil spec for a long time trying to be politically correct.

Chrome bores, big deal, the guys I shoot with dont shoot full auto and we dont live in jungle enviroment, so thats not an advantage. Not being chromed is an accuracy advantage.

They do offer either 223 or 556 chambers last time I checked, so thats not an issue.

I have seen just as many Colt bolts break as Dpms or Bushmaster or whoevers. But I will grant that colt bolts and carriers seem to bring more money.

I would buy a Knights over some of the others, Lmt give me a break, overpriced and a local gunsmith who bought one has never been able to make it reliable.

Mstn-good stuff, but they assemble from a host of suppliers that many of us shooters also use.

Your bias against Dpms is just unfounded regardless of what you think. I will continue to shoot against you in matches with your colts that puke in the middle of the match while the guys running JP's and DPMS's and a host of Hand built AR's.

[Anthony Lombardo]

Maybe now DPMS will start turning out some quality stuff!

That certainly has NOT been my experience with my several ARs from DPMS. .

DPMS puts out a very nice AR - and other components. Perhaps without the glitter of some but tight QC and very reasonable prices.

Not my experience, sorry.

DPMS uses very few MIL SPEC parts in their AR's. They make OK platforms for play guns, but they are not taken seriously by tactical and LE units. Critical operations like carrier key staking is often weak. Do they have chrome bores standard? .556 or .223 chambers? M&P bolts. No. No. No.

My personal experiences and those of friends are that DPMS makes an OK gun that strives to deliver, but rarely does.

After the last fiasco where they douldn't get 2 JP triggers to stop doubling on two different varmint guns we wrote them off the "good" list.

For quality second to none in AR's, look at Noveske, MSTN, LMT, Knights, and even lowly old Colt. Colt is STILL the preferred AR manufacturer for LE duty because their stuff just plain works and the parts used are MIL-SPEC where it count.

Anthony... I bow to your obviously superior knowledge... I must admit my opinion is limited to the few hundred I have built on DPMS base guns or DPMS components. All I can testify to is my own experience and reports from another several hundred shooters who I have met or shot with that use DPMS.

Anthony, Unlike Merlin, I do not bow to your superior knnowledge. You bring up things about the guns that any competent hobbyist could have fixed easily. Colt is only perferred because of price and the armorers are comfortable with them. Is the gun setup for battle, maybe not. Will they run as long as the others, more than likely. As for mil-spec, that is nothing special and remember that colts stuff wasnt mil spec for a long time trying to be politically correct.

Chrome bores, big deal, the guys I shoot with dont shoot full auto and we dont live in jungle enviroment, so thats not an advantage. Not being chromed is an accuracy advantage.

They do offer either 223 or 556 chambers last time I checked, so thats not an issue.

I have seen just as many Colt bolts break as Dpms or Bushmaster or whoevers. But I will grant that colt bolts and carriers seem to bring more money.

I would buy a Knights over some of the others, Lmt give me a break, overpriced and a local gunsmith who bought one has never been able to make it reliable.

Mstn-good stuff, but they assemble from a host of suppliers that many of us shooters also use.

Your bias against Dpms is just unfounded regardless of what you think. I will continue to shoot against you in matches with your colts that puke in the middle of the match while the guys running JP's and DPMS's and a host of Hand built AR's.

Never said I had superior knowledge. Just my experience. If money was no object would you buy a DPMS?

FYI, I run a Knights.

[scirocco38s]

Money is no object, and I build most of my guns. I would either buy a JP CTR02 or a DPMS with a JP CTR02upper. I would also buy Knights, Colt is never a consideration.

[M.E.Anglin]

Maybe now DPMS will start turning out some quality stuff!

That certainly has NOT been my experience with my several ARs from DPMS. .

DPMS puts out a very nice AR - and other components. Perhaps without the glitter of some but tight QC and very resonable prices.

Not my experience, sorry.

DPMS uses very few MIL SPEC parts in their AR's. They make OK platforms for play guns, but they are not taken seriously by tactical and LE units. Critical operations like carrier key staking is often weak. Do they have chrome bores standard? .556 or .223 chambers? M&P bolts. No. No. No.

My personal experiences and those of friends are that DPMS makes an OK gun that strives to deliver, but rarely does.

After the last fiasco where they douldn't get 2 JP triggers to stop doubling on two different varmint guns we wrote them off the "good" list.

For quality second to none in AR's, look at Noveske, MSTN, LMT, Knights, and even lowly old Colt. Colt is STILL the preferred AR manufacturer for LE duty because their stuff just plain works and the parts used are MIL-SPEC where it count.

most agencies don't like to change vendors, or suppliers (to much paperwork) last time I chated with some CIA amororers they were dumping thier Colts....I've own'd a Knight's(way over priced) sold it, will keep my Dpms stuff,

[M.E.Anglin]

and the best of luck to Randy and the gang, hope this works out to be a fruitfull relationship

[Chills1994]

Hey Gents!

(B)Arfcom is this way -----> http://ar15.com/

(thread drift on)

Somebody in another thread asked which AR or lower to get, and USCBigDawg replied back with something along the lines of:

"do you want a deer, a panther, or a snake engraved on it?"

I think that pretty much sums it up.

As far as the key staking thing goes, I think people put WAY too much emphasis on that. Trust me, I have installed 160 ton steam turbine rotors. A loose bolt or nut inside something that weighs that much spinning at 2,800 RPM's is BAD news. I know what (good) staking looks like.

I also think that people put way too much into what the military, law enforcement, and other agencies buy. Besides being the lowest bidder, I'm sure there is a lot a back room wheeling and dealing, you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours kinda politic-ing going on for a company to secure a contract like that.

Maybe I'm better off NOT buying from a company that is contracted out to the .gov .

(drift off)

Edited December 23, 2007 by Chills1994

[GentlemanJim]

Have to agree with Chills

As AR15s go there must be a hundred companies making them...some have to be better than others..but I would venture there is not lots of difference between them.

Only a few have ventured away from the basic reciever design and many share internal parts.

High quality components can be found in many variations and manufacturers.

Being the strange duck that I am ...I wanted what no other company makes...so I designed my own reciever set that has features no one else offers.

With a little luck they will soon become a reality and I can share my vision of the AR15 with the forum

If we all had no diverse opinion we would need only one style of car...gun ...house ect

now that would be a boring existance

Jim

[3GunF1Guy]

I am going to try and get this thread back on track.

What is Cerberus up to? I though maybe military stuff, but with Marlin in the picture that does not seem likely.

Remington to Acquire Marlin Firearms

Deal positions Marlin and its various brands for growth

December 26, 2007: 04:08 PM EST

MADISON, N.C., Dec. 26 /PRNewswire/ -- Remington Arms Company, Inc. ("Remington" or "the Company") the only manufacturer of both firearms and ammunition for Hunting, Law Enforcement/Security, Government & Military applications in the United States, today announced it has entered into a definitive agreement to acquire Marlin Firearms Company, Inc. ("Marlin"). The transaction is expected to close by the end of January 2008.

Marlin, headquartered in North Haven, Connecticut, also owns Harrington and Richardson (H&R), New England Firearms (NEF) and LC Smith brands of rifles and shotguns.

Tommy Millner Remington's CEO, said, "I am pleased to announce that Marlin's well known brands with a long heritage of providing quality rifles and shotguns to hunters and shooters around the world will join the Remington family. The opportunity to combine two historic U.S. based companies with such storied and proud histories, is both challenging and exhilarating."

"We look forward to working with Bob Behn, a well respected member of our industry. He will remain as president of Marlin, charting a course of further growth and operational improvement," Mr. Millner continued.

Closing of the transaction is subject to certain customary conditions, including regulatory approvals. Credit Suisse acted as financial advisor to Remington with respect to this acquisition. Duff & Phelps Securities, LLC, a unit of Duff & Phelps Corporation , initiated the transaction, assisted in the negotiations and acted as exclusive financial advisor to Marlin.

Frank Kenna III, Marlin's Chairman, said, "Marlin has been a family run business since 1924 and through a number of important steps, we have grown it into the company it is today. We knew it was time to find the right partner for Marlin to ensure our brands maintain their leadership positions and move into the next century."

Mr. Kenna III continued, "We believe Remington's commitment to the industry, shooters and hunters alike, combined with their resources from a manufacturing and sales and marketing position, will reinforce the confidence, hard work and dedication that our employees and management have put into our brands."

Marlin manufactures a wide range of long guns, from the historic Model 39 and 336 rifles, which are the oldest shoulder arm designs in the world still being produced, to the XLR Series, which are the most accurate lever action rifles in the world. Its lever action 22 repeater, now the Model 39, became the favorite of many exhibition shooters, including the great Annie Oakley.

E. Scott Blackwell, Remington's President of Global Sales/Marketing and Product Development, said, "The history of our two companies in innovation and meeting the needs of hunters and shooters around the globe, combined with the opportunity to further develop the Remington, Marlin, H&R, NEF and LC Smith brands, is not only beneficial to the Company and our channel partners, but especially to our end customer. It is these customers and our employees that have contributed to the success and longevity of these brands."

About Remington Arms Company, Inc.

Remington Arms Company, Inc., headquartered in Madison, N.C., designs, produces and sells sporting goods products for the hunting and shooting sports markets, as well as solutions to the military, government and law enforcement markets. Founded in 1816 in upstate New York, the Company is one of the nation's oldest continuously operating manufacturers. Remington is the only U.S. manufacturer of both firearms and ammunition products and one of the largest domestic producers of shotguns and rifles. The Company distributes its products throughout the U.S. and in over 55 foreign countries. More information about the Company can be found at http://www.remington.com.

About Marlin Firearms, Inc.

Established in 1870, The Marlin Firearms Company's brands include Marlin, Harrington & Richardson, New England Firearms and L. C. Smith. Under its various brands, Marlin produces an array of lever action, bolt action, and semi-automatic rifles, a wide variety of break-open single shot shotguns and rifles as well as muzzleloaders and combo sets. The company maintains a corporate Headquarters and manufacturing plant in North Haven, Connecticut as well as a manufacturing facility in Gardner, Massachusetts.

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articl...426122007-1.htm

Scott

[uscbigdawg]

Just to throw this into the mix. At least one SEAL team has used and applauded the quality of DPMS rifles. While they don't have the level of military contracts as the all mighty Colt, as someone that's carried a Colt the last 2 years, I'll say this. I'll take my JP or DPMS rifles ANY day of the week. Heck...the upper on the rifle I have here now is mostly DPMS parts on the Colt M-4 lower that I'm required to use. Thank goodness the working end is of better breeding (yeah...purposeful use of horsey reference).

Apparently we've captured some spill over from ARFCOM (i.e. if it ain't Colt or Bushmaster, it sucks; a.k.a. the group of people who put a box of ammo through their rifles a year).

Rich

[Anthony Lombardo]

Just to throw this into the mix. At least one SEAL team has used and applauded the quality of DPMS rifles. While they don't have the level of military contracts as the all mighty Colt, as someone that's carried a Colt the last 2 years, I'll say this. I'll take my JP or DPMS rifles ANY day of the week. Heck...the upper on the rifle I have here now is mostly DPMS parts on the Colt M-4 lower that I'm required to use. Thank goodness the working end is of better breeding (yeah...purposeful use of horsey reference).

Apparently we've captured some spill over from ARFCOM (i.e. if it ain't Colt or Bushmaster, it sucks; a.k.a. the group of people who put a box of ammo through their rifles a year).

Rich

Oh, In my opinion, Bushmaster sucks too.

[Cactustactical]

We have built a lot of AR-15's for customers using the DPMS sold lower parts kits and sold 100's more of the lower parts kits and other parts kits.

No issues, no problems. What is not really being said here is that most of the parts on an AR-15 / M4 sold by almost any of the probably close to 100 AR manufacturers either come from a few machine shops here in the States or from a Taiwan based company. It really isn't the parts when there is an issue with an AR, it is the assembly.

I am getting concerned about Cerberus buying up more of more of the gun industry: Bushmaster, Cobb, DPMS, Marlin to date. Between BM and DPMS, they now own a really large % of the AR market. Most of the rest, including Colt ( a shadow of its former self) are niche players. I really hope that ultimately Cerberus is 2nd Amemdment focused and do not let the political winds ( read next election) influence their sales strategy towards consumers. No industry knowledge for my concern, just perhaps fear from one who lived through the dark industry days of the Clinton presidency.

[walangkatapat]

Maybe now DPMS will start turning out some quality stuff!

That certainly has NOT been my experience with my several ARs from DPMS. .

DPMS puts out a very nice AR - and other components. Perhaps without the glitter of some but tight QC and very resonable prices.

Not my experience, sorry.

DPMS uses very few MIL SPEC parts in their AR's. They make OK platforms for play guns, but they are not taken seriously by tactical and LE units. Critical operations like carrier key staking is often weak. Do they have chrome bores standard? .556 or .223 chambers? M&P bolts. No. No. No.

My personal experiences and those of friends are that DPMS makes an OK gun that strives to deliver, but rarely does.

After the last fiasco where they douldn't get 2 JP triggers to stop doubling on two different varmint guns we wrote them off the "good" list.

For quality second to none in AR's, look at Noveske, MSTN, LMT, Knights, and even lowly old Colt. Colt is STILL the preferred AR manufacturer for LE duty because their stuff just plain works and the parts used are MIL-SPEC where it count.

I would suspect the adjustment of the JP triggers...before discarding the recievers as defective.

JMHO...Jim

+1

[walangkatapat]

Just to throw this into the mix. At least one SEAL team has used and applauded the quality of DPMS rifles. While they don't have the level of military contracts as the all mighty Colt, as someone that's carried a Colt the last 2 years, I'll say this. I'll take my JP or DPMS rifles ANY day of the week. Heck...the upper on the rifle I have here now is mostly DPMS parts on the Colt M-4 lower that I'm required to use. Thank goodness the working end is of better breeding (yeah...purposeful use of horsey reference).

Apparently we've captured some spill over from ARFCOM (i.e. if it ain't Colt or Bushmaster, it sucks; a.k.a. the group of people who put a box of ammo through their rifles a year).

Rich

Oh, In my opinion, Bushmaster sucks too.

Are you trying to be funny?

[walangkatapat]

I am getting concerned about Cerberus buying up more of more of the gun industry:

I'm with you on that.