SV_shooter Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 went with a friend to the range to teach him to shoot his new 686 after shooting my old #66. We loaded up the cyl, and the gun fired 1 shot, then next shot nothing... next shot nothing... next shot bang.. next shot nothing. next shot bang. I put his light striked ammo in my 66 and it ran perfectly. I locked up my 66 and put it to the light so I can see the pin how far the pin sticks out from the cylinder and it was almost .030. did the same thing with his 686. the pin was barely portruding. I stuck a bic stic pen in my gun and squeezed the trigger. the pen shot out the gun about 5'. I did the same with the new 686 and it made it about 1' out the barrel and fell to the floor. Do you think its a short firing pin, wrong spring? I'm leaning towards wrong size firing pin, but I shoot enough revolvers to really know as they never puke .. any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Did you check the strain screw under the grip to make sure it was tight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 There were some S&Ws that went out with under-length firing pins. We've talked about it in more detail on past threads on this forum. Check the strain screw like Gary said, but if it's OK, replace the firing pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 went with a friend to the range to teach him to shoot his new 686 after shooting my old #66. We loaded up the cyl, and the gun fired 1 shot, then next shot nothing... next shot nothing... next shot bang.. next shot nothing. next shot bang. I put his light striked ammo in my 66 and it ran perfectly. I locked up my 66 and put it to the light so I can see the pin how far the pin sticks out from the cylinder and it was almost .030. did the same thing with his 686. the pin was barely portruding. I stuck a bic stic pen in my gun and squeezed the trigger. the pen shot out the gun about 5'. I did the same with the new 686 and it made it about 1' out the barrel and fell to the floor. Do you think its a short firing pin, wrong spring? I'm leaning towards wrong size firing pin, but I shoot enough revolvers to really know as they never puke .. any suggestions? Hi SV shooter. What primers are you using? Federals are nearly universally used for USPSA revolver competition. Also, such light strikes will usually go off if hit again - even with the same gun. Has the strain spring srew been loosened to reduce the DA pull? Finally, there are longer FPs for USPSA revolvers, but they may thwart dry firing from what I have heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 (edited) went with a friend to the range to teach him to shoot his new 686 after shooting my old #66. We loaded up the cyl, and the gun fired 1 shot, then next shot nothing... next shot nothing... next shot bang.. next shot nothing. next shot bang. I put his light striked ammo in my 66 and it ran perfectly. I locked up my 66 and put it to the light so I can see the pin how far the pin sticks out from the cylinder and it was almost .030. did the same thing with his 686. the pin was barely portruding. I stuck a bic stic pen in my gun and squeezed the trigger. the pen shot out the gun about 5'. I did the same with the new 686 and it made it about 1' out the barrel and fell to the floor. Do you think its a short firing pin, wrong spring? I'm leaning towards wrong size firing pin, but I shoot enough revolvers to really know as they never puke .. any suggestions? The new FP's do extend less distance through the breech, but they are long enough assuming they are OK. It may be that this one has some burr on it keeping it from coming all the way out. It could also be dragging in the channel. Either way, they are soft MIM metal and you can easily polish the sides smooth if necessary. If you want the pin to be able to come out more, you can shave some metal off the rear indentation in the FP that acts as the stop. And as stated above, make sure the strain screw is tight. Edited November 30, 2007 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Either way, they are soft MIM metal and you can easily polish the sides smooth if necessary. Hmmm....I don't think that's right....aren't the factory firing pins made of titanium? Randy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 (edited) Either way, they are soft MIM metal and you can easily polish the sides smooth if necessary. Hmmm....I don't think that's right....aren't the factory firing pins made of titanium? Randy? Stainless I think. Either way, if SV Shooter thinks he needs a new pin, e mail or PM and I can spare one Regards, Gary Edited November 30, 2007 by Round_Gun_Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjk Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Either way, they are soft MIM metal and you can easily polish the sides smooth if necessary. Hmmm....I don't think that's right....aren't the factory firing pins made of titanium? Randy? Stainless I think. Either way, if SV Shooter thinks he needs a new pin, e mail or PM and I can spare one Regards, Gary My experience in Australia is that the early pins were stainless, they changed to Ti a few years back. The stainless have a dull stainless finish, the Ti pins have a slightly darker grey finish and are a lot lighter in weight. Pk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SV_shooter Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 I didn't do a thing but just the tests above. As I said, I never had a single issue with a revolver my whole life and this is my friends brand new gun. He just DROS'ed it and wanted me to teach him to shoot it with winchester white box. I am not set up for .38 SP or .357 as I rarely shoot mine. my 66 just sits in the drawer of my night stand for defense, and I bring it out when friends want to learn to shoot as it is so simple for them. upon inspection, the pin does not look titanium. I have a IWC titanium watch and know the grey color very well. this looks stainless, but like I said, I just see a nub of it. I will check the strain screw If he hasn't sent it back to S&W as it was brand new and I told him to send it back. Its not for competition. just a saddle gun for my friend when he goes horseback riding. Gary thanks so much for the offer, but I'll let S&W fix it. Appreciate the insight from all of you. Thanks a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 No, I'm sure the current production stock firing pins are titanium. I just went downstairs and opened up a factory pin I recently ordered. It is extremely light and doesn't stick to a magnet. I'm sure it's Ti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SV_shooter Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 I believe ya carmoney. It just looked the same color as the gun, and is barely visable. its off to S&W for them to fix as they should send it right the first time. thank you though. appreciate the insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imashooter2 Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I had the same issue. First I replaced the factory pin with a C&S Extended pin, fixed the problem until the C&S pin broke. Then I ordered a new factory pin from Midway. IIRC, it was .015 longer than the pin that S&W installed in the first place. No misfires since installing the new factory pin. Both the factory pin I removed and the new factory pin I installed are non magnetic and lighter than steel. Ti is a good guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Hi guys, Yep, Mike has the correct material. Current production firing pins are Ti. Older versions are steel and magnetic. If your firing pin measures .485 OAL or less, and has a conical tip to it, it's one of the "CA drop test" firing pins. Some of the newer 625s that I have in the shop now have .495 long pins. There have a good amount of complaints regarding light hits on new guns out of the box. Some with reloads, but I've had to address this problem on several LE carry J-frames over the past year. If you call customer service and tell them, they may be willing to ship you a new longer pin. The new pins are .495 or so and have a more rounded tip. My new pins will hopefully be here next week. I'll need to sacrifice another goat for this batch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 First I replaced the factory pin with a C&S Extended pin, fixed the problem until the C&S pin broke. That's exactly why I've been consistently warning people against the junk C&S pins for several years. (Wonder how many times we have to hear from different shooters who have experienced broken C&S pins before people quit defending them??) I am looking forward to giving the new Randy pin a good test run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10mmdave Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 First I replaced the factory pin with a C&S Extended pin, fixed the problem until the C&S pin broke. That's exactly why I've been consistently warning people against the junk C&S pins for several years. (Wonder how many times we have to hear from different shooters who have experienced broken C&S pins before people quit defending them??) I am looking forward to giving the new Randy pin a good test run. Easy there now counselor, bad bowl of Wheaties this morning ?? Some folks have used the C&S firing pins for years without any problems. I don't believe you know how all those broken pins were installed or treated. There are other factors involved that could have lead to the breakage. Suffice it to say that you do not recommend C&S firing pins for your revo's or any of the ones you work on. I also will be happy to see/try Randy's new firing pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 FWIW, I have used C&S pins in my trigger work with relative success. I've posted on another thread about wanting to make my own firing pins in order to address the issues I've had with the factory short pins, and those of the C&S design. My pin also will come with a reduced power return spring for competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 There are other factors involved that could have lead to the breakage. Like what, Dave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 First I replaced the factory pin with a C&S Extended pin, fixed the problem until the C&S pin broke. That's exactly why I've been consistently warning people against the junk C&S pins for several years. (Wonder how many times we have to hear from different shooters who have experienced broken C&S pins before people quit defending them??) I am looking forward to giving the new Randy pin a good test run. Easy there now counselor, bad bowl of Wheaties this morning ?? Some folks have used the C&S firing pins for years without any problems. I don't believe you know how all those broken pins were installed or treated. There are other factors involved that could have lead to the breakage. Suffice it to say that you do not recommend C&S firing pins for your revo's or any of the ones you work on. I also will be happy to see/try Randy's new firing pin. Dave, Nothing against Randy and his product, but I had mis fires right off the bat with the pin I got from Randy. I replaced it with a S&W new stock pin and had no more problems. No idea why it happened but the fix was easy. If I can find the Apex [pin, I will give it to you. I am pretty sure I put it aside somewhere "safe" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 RGS, Sorry to hear you had misfires. My firing pin is only slightly longer than the factory version-.500, but the material is 17-4 stainless. I would be curious as to the particulars of the gun... ~Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 RGS,Sorry to hear you had misfires. My firing pin is only slightly longer than the factory version-.500, but the material is 17-4 stainless. I would be curious as to the particulars of the gun... ~Randy S&W 625 JM, 6" blue barrel, your hammer, reduced spring weights that still fire all primers, zero end shake yoke or cylinder, gun is tight and right Again, no idea at all why but replacing the pin and spring solved the problem. It really didn't make sense to me but that is my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 RGS,Sorry to hear you had misfires. My firing pin is only slightly longer than the factory version-.500, but the material is 17-4 stainless. I would be curious as to the particulars of the gun... ~Randy S&W 625 JM, 6" blue barrel, your hammer, reduced spring weights that still fire all primers, zero end shake yoke or cylinder, gun is tight and right Again, no idea at all why but replacing the pin and spring solved the problem. It really didn't make sense to me but that is my experience. Glad you solved the issue- perhaps the Ti weight made the difference? In looking at the pic- is that a shadow or something propping up the gun? The hammer profile doesn't look like mine. Could be an optical illusion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 RGS,Sorry to hear you had misfires. My firing pin is only slightly longer than the factory version-.500, but the material is 17-4 stainless. I would be curious as to the particulars of the gun... ~Randy S&W 625 JM, 6" blue barrel, your hammer, reduced spring weights that still fire all primers, zero end shake yoke or cylinder, gun is tight and right Again, no idea at all why but replacing the pin and spring solved the problem. It really didn't make sense to me but that is my experience. Glad you solved the issue- perhaps the Ti weight made the difference? In looking at the pic- is that a shadow or something propping up the gun? The hammer profile doesn't look like mine. Could be an optical illusion... I think I was still waiting for the hammer and pin when I took that pic but it is the only one I have saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 perhaps the Ti weight made the difference? Seems a heavier firing pin will require more mainspring. It robs the hammer of more energy (velocity) to accelerate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Leave it to California to have a drop-test that makes it so the gun only goes off half the time..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 At least I won't have to microstamp the firing pins like the auto's as of 2010... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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