club at turning point

[JThompson]

I can't even believe there are people out there willing to shut down a match over this issue

Do you think the asshats (I think that's the correct technical term) number more than a tiny minority? It scares me that more than 2 people in my state may think like this. I may be really deluded

I would invite them not to come to the matches where traveling ROs are used.

[nipplehead]

I can't even believe there are people out there willing to shut down a match over this issue

Do you think the asshats (I think that's the correct technical term) number more than a tiny minority? It scares me that more than 2 people in my state may think like this. I may be really deluded

All the other clubs I shoot at have traveling ROs. AS far as I can tell most are willing to change from dedicated to traveling but the ones that do not want to change are very strong in their positions. Best thing for them is to see what other clubs are doing. On this forum the best shooters in the country are involved ...How can they argue with 98% of what other top shooters and clubs around the US are doing? Keep it coming agree or disagree.

I am still waiting to find someone strongly opposed to traveling ROs @ Level 1

[dajarrel]

I guess we are one of the fortunate clubs even though we are small. We shoot the 2nd and 4th Saturdays. Our match starts at 9:30.....OK maybe at 10:00. Everyone starts showing up at 8:00 -8:30 and starts building stages. Our range is single use so we can leave a lot of the props in the bays. I (being duped into being club prez) usually set up a classifier while others set up four more stages. Then we shoot

We have as few as 8-9 shooters and as many as 20-25 depending on the time of year and weather. If there are enough we split into several squads and in in splitting up the squads I make sure there are at least 1-2 certified RO's if possible although the "certified" RO may not always be on the timer. Walk throughs are given verbally and everyone talks about it before we shoot.

We rotate the jobs of RO and scorekeeper with everyone picking up brass and restoring targets.

I guess in my rambling, I mean to say that if the RO's didn't shoot, we probably wouldn't have a match. We don't have enough dedicated range staff to have an RO on each stage.

FWIW

dj

[scirocco38s]

Our local match usually runs 60-70 shooters per month, and another I regularly shoot i 2.5hrs away and sells out at 100 per match and we use ros that move with the squads. The only matches I go to that use the same ro for the stage all day is a sectional or larger match. I dont have the resources to put a guy on a stage all day. Most of my volunteers would quit if I went to stationary ro's.

[glock_40_caliber]

Add another club in to the embeded RO category. With usually 8 stages, and anywhere from 60-90+ shooters, we still make sure there is either a certified RO with each squad. RO's are given a "RO walk-thru" prior to the shooter's meeting, so everyone is on the same page to run the COF's.

[enoon]

Regarding your up coming meeting. The discussion may be about embedded RO's, but the real issue will probably be something else. Maybe the new shooters and new attitudes that an "old guard" is not comfortable with. I can only uselessly speculate. It sounds like the attitude borders on self-destructive or perhaps my way or the highway. While you should have a good grasp of the rules and common practice, I doubt that pointing out the reality of how the world functions will resolve the dispute.

I would go into the meeting thinking that I may not be able to change a mind set. Thus, I would accept that attempts to end the matches are probable. Or that there would be a loss of experienced shooters. And have a plan on how to counter possible measures "they" might take. Packing the meeting with supporters is an obvious approach.

Personally, my first reaction was "How much are you going to pay me to work the matches and not be able to shoot them?" My second reaction was, "OK, you guys who want dedicated RO's are hereby designated dedicated RO's." I would say much too aggressive/adversarial for the meeting.

I guess I'm trying to say that you may not be able to come out of the meeting with things as they were. Prepare yourself, so that you are flexible and have alternative approaches in mind for various possiblities. In the meeting you are a diplomat/negotiator. Be cool. But win the votes.

Good luck.

[JFD]

There are actually 2 votes for dedicated ROs

enoon

Your second reaction would also be my reaction.

I agree with packing the meeting with folks who support traveling ROs.

[nipplehead]

There are actually 2 votes for dedicated ROs

enoon

Your second reaction would also be my reaction.

I agree with packing the meeting with folks who support traveling ROs.

Yea thats my plan from the beginning.... plus bring this poll to the meeting..I think enoon hit this deal square in the head.

I really thought there would be more than 2 vote for dedicated ROs...

Edited November 30, 2007 by nipplehead

[Ron Rodgers]

I guess we're in the minority - we run with (sort of) dedicated ROs on all 5 stages.

We set up on Saturday and most of the ROs shoot after setup is completed. On Sunday, we assign at least 2 ROs to each stage. If either needs to shoot, the other(s) will work the stage until he finishes. The first can then shoot or stay and help work the stage.

An RO shooting on Sunday gets a shoot through pass, so they finish pretty quickly. As most ROs shoot Saturday, this allows staff to shoot - at least one gun - and gives us fairly consistent ROing.

We usually get 80 to 100 guns.

This works for us because we have resources almost no one else has - 10 to 15 dedicated individuals who are willing to commit 2 days, and the ability to to tie up the ranges for the whole weekend.

[nipplehead]

I guess we're in the minority - we run with (sort of) dedicated ROs on all 5 stages.

We set up on Saturday and most of the ROs shoot after setup is completed. On Sunday, we assign at least 2 ROs to each stage. If either needs to shoot, the other(s) will work the stage until he finishes. The first can then shoot or stay and help work the stage.

An RO shooting on Sunday gets a shoot through pass, so they finish pretty quickly. As most ROs shoot Saturday, this allows staff to shoot - at least one gun - and gives us fairly consistent ROing.

We usually get 80 to 100 guns.

This works for us because we have resources almost no one else has - 10 to 15 dedicated individuals who are willing to commit 2 days, and the ability to to tie up the ranges for the whole weekend.

Ron Our club has been doing matches exactly like you describe for 3 years. Some of the guys need a break, we all shoot badly after setup so the shooting part is usually not as enjoyable as it could be. Many of the founders are wanting to scale back so they can enjoy at least half our matches...and who can blame them. There has been a few times when setup help was almost nonexistant plus half the guys can only do Saturday or Sunday but not both. We tried to keep our standards high but its like swimming upstream. Some of the founders do not want to comprimise those standards and I respect them for that. The new bodies coming in are willing to work but would rather shoot in a squad on match day.

We usually get around 50 shooters.

Burn out has taken its toll...its seems it would be easier on everyone just to let the RO go with the group. On match day we can get help out side the club as many of the shooters from other clubs hold RO cards. As it is now most people have to be there both days...if we change the pressure is really just on setup day because there is always enough RO help in the crowd if we just let them help us. ANd we could enjoy the match because we would not have to shoot right after setup when we are hot , tired and generally useless.!!!

[TreblePlink]

Let me get this right ... some are thinking about shutting down your matches because you have too much help? If only we could have such problems.

[nipplehead]

Let me get this right ... some are thinking about shutting down your matches because you have too much help? If only we could have such problems.

No we have not had enough help...because we have done the old school way and not allowed the outside the club ROs who attend our monthly matches tohelp run the matches. There by completely burning out the few in our club that have been involved, and that number has been shrinking.Of those a percentage are saying they will only do half the matches from 2008 on, Within that group some may not involve themselves at all if the ROs are part of a squad

[scirocco38s]

Let me get this right ... some are thinking about shutting down your matches because you have too much help? If only we could have such problems.

No we have not had enough help...because we have done the old school way and not allowed the outside the club ROs who attend our monthly matches tohelp run the matches. There by completely burning out the few in our club that have been involved, and that number has been shrinking.Of those a percentage are saying they will only do half the matches from 2008 on, Within that group some may not involve themselves at all if the ROs are part of a squad

The club I shoot at is a multi discipline club and when we started ipsc many years ago there was much resistance to it. The shotgunners didnt like it and the bullseye shooters didnt either, I wont even bring up the rifle shooters at all. That all changed after the first match and we handed them the profits from the match. This year our ipsc program will clear over 10k in profit from the matches held. That is after paying for targets and mission count. We make more in the ipsc program than all the other programs combined, so if your program is half way profitable that may be a bargining point for you to use. Remember that money breeds power and that may be where your conflict arises from. Our club knows who is bringing in the money but we dont make a big deal of it either as we have junior smallbore and highpower as well as trap, skeet, sporting clays and all the other programs involved.

[scirocco38s]

Let me get this right ... some are thinking about shutting down your matches because you have too much help? If only we could have such problems.

No we have not had enough help...because we have done the old school way and not allowed the outside the club ROs who attend our monthly matches tohelp run the matches. There by completely burning out the few in our club that have been involved, and that number has been shrinking.Of those a percentage are saying they will only do half the matches from 2008 on, Within that group some may not involve themselves at all if the ROs are part of a squad

[mikegot38]

We build 7 stages in the morning. RO's are embedded, but we are looking at some tightening of just who is actually an RO. We are looking to have certified ROs, preferably more than one, per squad. We used to read the WSBs to the entire group, no one really remembers after the first stage. Wonehat we now do is stress the reading of the WSB by the RO and if there are questions, that they should come and get one of the MDs. Dedicated ROs would be great, but no one wants to miss shooting the match to work and building a day early is out. Most of us have lives other than shooting.

Take all the help you can get, Embed your ROs, hold classes, team up sage builder/designer teams. The more the work is spread, the more people you will have available to help and the less each person has to do.

Jim

I shoot in PA and NJ, sometimes with Jim and all of the clubs I shoot club matches at do it this way. I traveled from PA to VA alst winter in a snow storm so that I could take the RO class and be a real help to whatever squad I shoot with. Being safe and having fun shooting in that Order is the way it goes.

Mike