scandog Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Check out the IDPA website. They are going to change the approved holster list. It looks like they are going to make most of us purchase new holsters. Is this a good Idea? What are they thinking now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlocknSchpiel Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Scandog, The Holster section is now FROZEN to allow the BoD to figure out which of the new adjustable holsters can be set to a muzzle-forward cant like most of the IPSC speed rigs. They are trying to keep the "RACING" to a minimum. After Jan, 2004, new holsters can be submitted for approval. We, at the local club, have known about this adjustable holster situation for nearly a year. Of course it helps that we have a BoD member as one of our occasional shooters. If you shoot an FBI cant (muzzle back by 15*) or a standard rig (vertical) and it's in the list, you don't have anything to worry about. Later, Glockn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scandog Posted April 1, 2003 Author Share Posted April 1, 2003 Does this mean my uncle mike's paddle is still going to be legal? It has three adjustments as do most all uncle Mike's injection molded holsters. I believe almost all Kydex and injection molded holsters allow for all three postions. Will they all be removed from the list? I don't care if they state no muzzle forward cant. At least that way i don't have to buy new equipment. Up here in the north, we don't get to hear about new rules until the roll out as the BoD and Bill don't seem to respond or explain in these forums or anywhere else. Even some explination in the Tactical Journal would go a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Hey Scandog Maybe someday they will get the drift that a little prewarning would do a world of good to play down the idea that they really don't care what anyone thinks, 'cause it is their game and if you don't like it, go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scandog Posted April 2, 2003 Author Share Posted April 2, 2003 Rick T shut me down again. I asked the same question on another forum and it wasn't pro IDPA and I was shut down. I will learn you can't ask any questions about IDPA over there. Tightloop. I agree that a little more info would go a long way. The thing that bothers me is how they worded the the changes on the website. " Holsters that allow adjustment to a forward cant (muzzle forward) will be removed from the holster list." Unless my English is gettting foggy from listening to my kids, "Holster that allow adjustment to a forward cant " covers almost all Kydex and injection molded holsters. "Will be removed" is pretty clear. I don't care if they make a rule that states you can't have a forward cant. Why ban the equipment that was allowed. I stand to loose a large number of shooters over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 ....I stand to loose a large number of shooters over this. and a bunch of us regular shooters have been bugging our MD for sometime now to renew the club's IDPA affiliation. Maybe he knew about this before we did and saw the same problem. Smart dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlocknSchpiel Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Scandog, I have several Kydex holsters, UM's, Blade-Tech, and Fobus, and none of them are adjustable. The only type that they are concerned with are the NEW type of holsters that have a "Swivle" mechanism built in to quickly allow someone to adjust it to the "SPEED POSITION". The LIMITS are not going to be set for another year and will not go into effect for yet another 12 months. It sounds like you're worring about things two years in advance. Take my advice, "Don't sweat the small stuff!" lol Later, Glockn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snokid Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 GlocknSchpiel I have a uncle mikes and a bladetech that both are adjustable, you just take the two screws out and put them back in different holes, you can then have either straight, muzzle forward, and muzzle back... At least we have 1 yr to decide if we want to buy a new holster... Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Just checked out the Blade-Tech website. Neither their Standard Belt Holster nor the injection molded jobbie patterned on the SBH are adjustable. It's the Dropped and Offset Holster and 3-Position Paddle that are adjustable for FBI cant, straight up-and-down, or muzzle forward. If you're running the SBH or injection molded SBH equivalent, you should be okay. I can see where IDPA High Command would have a problem with the 3-position adjustable designs. From the start they've outlawed competition oriented holsters that feature, or offer the option of, a muzzle forward position. These holsters are not concealable and violate the "all holsters must be appropriate for all-day concealed carry" portion of the IDPA rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Not concealable? I think not. My dear old geezer father has been toting around his J-frame in a muzzle-forward holster for many years. I mentioned this to him, and he found it pretty darn funny that the High Command thinks his decade-old carry holster isn't really a carry holster. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 J-frame? BWAH-HAH-HAH-HAH!! Sorry. Really. C'mon, guy, you can do a lot of things with a teeny pocket revolver that you can't do with a real gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Duane Don't let Jim Cirillo hear you talk badly about short barrelled .38 revolvers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scandog Posted April 4, 2003 Author Share Posted April 4, 2003 What is the difference between a leather paddle holster, single position paddle and three position paddle? Is one more concealable than another? I DIN'T THINK SO! Just make the rule no forward cant. What a thought. That was tough. The biggest problem is they looked at these holsters and approved them. As far as I know Uncle Mike's holsters have been 3 postion for some time. If the holster changed and was not submitted to the IDPA for re-approval, then they should not have been legal. As far as I can tell, this is another rule that wasn't thought through very well or it is just to try and get someone an advantage that lost a match to a better shooter. If you can't beat the shooter take his equipment away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Duane, At least I got the old fart to quit carrying 158 grain round nose lead in that peashooter. My current project is to switch him from a 3" J-frame to a Commander-length .45...no luck yet. Old guys are tough to deal with sometimes. And yes, dealing with the latest "we do hearby decree that your holsters...which we used to like...we now hate, so thus we make this ruling just to annoy you" from Mount Olympus is pretty darn funny. Good thing I shoot a CQB from a Wilson holster with Wilson mag punches, otherwise I might have to change too Alex Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 You MUST conform... You MUST conform... You MUST conform... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Perez Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Holster list is frozen for 2003 Some holsters have been changed from their original approved design. For that reason, the BoD will be looking at all holsters on the current approved holster list for re-approval during 2003. No new holsters will be added to the list during that time. Holsters that allow adjustment to a forward cant (muzzle forward) will be removed from the holster list. New holsters will be accepted for approval to the holster list from the manufacturer during the month of January, 2004. To submit a holster, have the manufacturer send a holster (not a picture) to: IDPA Holster Committee 2232 CR 719 Berryville, AR 72616 Holsters that ARE NOT approved will be sent back to the manufacturer. Holsters that are approved will remain at IDPA HQ. scandog -doesn't that address your issue? I don't see this as a ruling ,looks to me like an announcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Don't let Jim Cirillo hear you talk badly about short barrelled .38 revolvers. I know Jim Cirillo, and I love the guy. It's worth noting that when he carried a Colt Cobra in his hip pocket on stakeout it was as a back-up the long gun and two full-sized revolvers he was also carrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scandog Posted April 5, 2003 Author Share Posted April 5, 2003 I think I stated that is the part I have a problem with. I don't cant my holster forward. But it can be adjusted that way. It is no less concealable than a leather paddle or belt holster. I did get an Email from Dru explaining that the BoD felt it was too much for an SO have to look at a holster and determine if it was legaly configured. Has anyone actually had a problem with this. Maybe they just wanted some new holsters. They are keeping those that they determine are now going to be legal. I wonder who gets to use them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayonaise Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 I run weekly IDPA matches and I see tons of new shooters every month. I've seen most every kind of rig you can imagine. I've told shooters they could not use holsters they have for open finger guards, positioning and muzzle forward position, etc... I understand where the BoD is coming from. Instead of simple holster rules the've been forced into making lists of specific holsters to thwart the influx of shooters that take advantage of whatever loophole they can find in the rulebook to gain a competitive advantage. We saw it with shirt pockets for mag dumps and funky concealment garments. Do we MD's and SO's have time to do equipment checks every match? Probably not. What this rule does is lays out the rules for the sanctioned matches and nationals. I think most clubs are flexible on some equipment. But you have to make it clearly defined when people travel and spend $$ for the major matches. Defining the list of holsters closes Pandora's box compared to making more vague positioning regulations. I'd rather ask what holster you have and check the list if needed than have to breakout a protractor. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Mark, I was going to ask the question that you kinda answered... Is it easier to check a list or just take a look? I don't know how many whiskers it take to make a beard, but I know one when I see one. I would think that picking out a "race holster" would be just as easy? Or, are IDPA holsters getting that gamey? (disclaimer: I don't have/shoot IDPA close to home, so I don't know what is going on at matches.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayonaise Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Mark,I was going to ask the question that you kinda answered... Is it easier to check a list or just take a look? I don't know how many whiskers it take to make a beard, but I know one when I see one. I would think that picking out a "race holster" would be just as easy? Or, are IDPA holsters getting that gamey? (disclaimer: I don't have/shoot IDPA close to home, so I don't know what is going on at matches.) Thinking about it more I just don't think there's a simple answer to the issue. As a MD and SO I generally go by the method you mentioned. If it looks like it conforms to the basic rules I let them run them. There aren't that many of us that know 90% of the holsters made. Regardless. These days no matter what the BoD (I'm still curious who's replaced Ken, Dick and Walt) does there's a very vocal few that will raise a stink. Me? I just show up and shoot. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjbever Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 You silly worrywarts.....just buy Wilson Combat holsters and you wont have to worry 'bout them being illegal. Hi Mayo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scandog Posted April 29, 2003 Author Share Posted April 29, 2003 I have been thinking about this. When was the last time you saw someone pull out the latest (Now frozen, but previously ever changing) list of approved holsters and check to see if yours was on it. I have enough to handle with runnig the IDPA shooting at our club and working a 40+ hour a week job and spending time with my family. That fills most of my time, but now in that little bit of extra time I had, I get to learn which holsters are on the list and those not on the list. NO WAIT, I will appoint a holster NAZI to go around and verify everyone is using an approved holster. That shouldn't scare away any shooters. This seems more and more like a lot to do about nothing. As long as the trigger is covered, the gun isn't canted forward, and it is concealable, WHO CARES!! The mag pouch rules were not even enforced at nationals last year. You would think at least there the rules would be enforced. NOT The way I see it, clubs are going to continue to do things the way they are now and when the BoD starts enforcing their own rules, then we can. Bever, do you get kick back from Wilson, you sure try to sell their equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THS Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 WOW. This IDPA stuff is really good for me (I dont shoot it though...) 1. Every time I think USPSA's rules are wacked, I can come here and see how it might have been, 2. Every time I think a gamer is finding a loophole in stage design, as an example, I can come here and see how things might be if the Power of god is given to the RO for personal interpretation, 3. Just when you think creatively, you'll be hit with a penalty for not using cover let's say, by someone who's probably never seen or heard a shot fired in anger! Nor could most tell the difference between cover and concealment. Thank you IDPA, for contrasting things a little bit. It's a game. No more. No less. It has training value, but that is in how YOU choose to use it. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjbever Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 Scandog: No kickbacks from Wilson. I just like to remind the Bill Wilson groupies that Billyboy built a game around the products he sells!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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