El Prez

[G-ManBart]

5.3-5.6 hot cold or in the middle... all 7-10 down. The average was 5.4 9 down. The last go I indexed and had 2M in 4.69.

God that was hard to admit...

JT

Give us some practice times that are only down 3-5 points. Those often become "down 7-10" under pressure but they give you a better idea of a true speed you can run under control.

Also, just another tip to track, keep an eye on splits vs. transitions and draw vs reload.

Look at it this way; if draw & reload hover around 1.35 - 1.5 ish, splits AND transitions around maybe .30 ish, that would put you at a very smooth, boring 6.0. Shoot it down zero and you're at a "10 hf" which is GM level in Limited.

I'll bet you're going faster than this on splits and slower on transitions.

A 6.0 clean is close to a GM score, but not quite in Limited.

We actually shot El Prez in a match not long ago. I ran it in 5.89 clean and the HF was 10.1867 which gave me 94.3117% in Limited...almost GM. Unfortunately, I was holding back a tick...rats.

[dirtypool40]

Yup 100% is "roughly" 11hf in Lim and 12 in Open. A 10 is plenty respectable.

JThompson, a 1.2ish T&D is plenty respectable. You can make GM with that, now get on those loads. You get your Transitions AND splits down to .25ish and that load down to 1.25ish and you're there.

[pmd]

I don't know if this is right, but here's what I have been doing. In the setup, I put most of my weight on my left foot (ball) When the buzzer sounds, I whip my head around while pushing off with my left foot. ...JT

JThompson,

Well, I shot El Prez this past weekend at the Summer Blast - using some of your advice -

my time was a 4.75 down 12 - I was a bit sloppy on dot placement 2 D's and 6C's must have been match nervs.

Thanks for the advice I shaved over a second off my previous time.

[JThompson]

I don't know if this is right, but here's what I have been doing. In the setup, I put most of my weight on my left foot (ball) When the buzzer sounds, I whip my head around while pushing off with my left foot. ...JT

JThompson,

Well, I shot El Prez this past weekend at the Summer Blast - using some of your advice -

my time was a 4.75 down 12 - I was a bit sloppy on dot placement 2 D's and 6C's must have been match nervs.

Thanks for the advice I shaved over a second off my previous time.

Now work it a bit to get rid of those Ds and you be styln. Glad something I said helped. I think that's an M class run with a HF of just over 10. What class are you in currently?

I'm still a U. I guess that stands for UNDERDOG.... "There's no need to fear!"

Edited July 16, 2007 by JThompson

[JThompson]

5.3-5.6 hot cold or in the middle... all 7-10 down. The average was 5.4 9 down. The last go I indexed and had 2M in 4.69.

God that was hard to admit...

JT

Give us some practice times that are only down 3-5 points. Those often become "down 7-10" under pressure but they give you a better idea of a true speed you can run under control.

Also, just another tip to track, keep an eye on splits vs. transitions and draw vs reload.

Look at it this way; if draw & reload hover around 1.35 - 1.5 ish, splits AND transitions around maybe .30 ish, that would put you at a very smooth, boring 6.0. Shoot it down zero and you're at a "10 hf" which is GM level in Limited.

I'll bet you're going faster than this on splits and slower on transitions.

A 6.0 clean is close to a GM score, but not quite in Limited.

We actually shot El Prez in a match not long ago. I ran it in 5.89 clean and the HF was 10.1867 which gave me 94.3117% in Limited...almost GM. Unfortunately, I was holding back a tick...rats.

Still a very good time and clean to boot!

[JThompson]

Yup 100% is "roughly" 11hf in Lim and 12 in Open. A 10 is plenty respectable.

JThompson, a 1.2ish T&D is plenty respectable. You can make GM with that, now get on those loads. You get your Transitions AND splits down to .25ish and that load down to 1.25ish and you're there.

I'm going to spend some time on loads and draw. Thank God it's two things I can work on without spending money on ammo. The prices are getting crazy!

Thanks for the advice...

Best,

Jim

[JThompson]

Double tap

Edited July 16, 2007 by JThompson

[XRe]

Ran a couple of GM runs on this yesterday - best runs were punctuated with an overall feeling of smooth, calm shooting. Had a couple of tense runs, too, that didn't work out as well. Last run was a 4.74 down 1, first run was a 4.79 down 6 - up and down in the middle of that. On the last run, I had a 1.2 T&D - I didn't note the reload, but it was in the 1.1-1.2 range, judging by feel - and the rest felt sharp and unhurried.

Performance on this stage seems to go in jumps for me - last time I worked this stage, I couldn't seem to manage a GM run without really pushing it. That was a few months back. Now it seems like a low GM-ish run cold, and 100%+ warm is the norm.

Having a reliable 1.2-ish reload is important, Jim - you can help make the dry reloads more fun by varying up how you're working them, and telling yourself that this will make a huge difference in the "wet" reloads - and help you save ammo for other drills...

[JThompson]

Ran a couple of GM runs on this yesterday - best runs were punctuated with an overall feeling of smooth, calm shooting. Had a couple of tense runs, too, that didn't work out as well. Last run was a 4.74 down 1, first run was a 4.79 down 6 - up and down in the middle of that. On the last run, I had a 1.2 T&D - I didn't note the reload, but it was in the 1.1-1.2 range, judging by feel - and the rest felt sharp and unhurried.

Performance on this stage seems to go in jumps for me - last time I worked this stage, I couldn't seem to manage a GM run without really pushing it. That was a few months back. Now it seems like a low GM-ish run cold, and 100%+ warm is the norm.

Having a reliable 1.2-ish reload is important, Jim - you can help make the dry reloads more fun by varying up how you're working them, and telling yourself that this will make a huge difference in the "wet" reloads - and help you save ammo for other drills...

Those are some killer runs... esp if they felt smooth. Thinking back, most of the runs I made felt a little tense. It was almost a feeling of throwing a ball instead tossing one. I did feel a few good ones, but it's still hard to get my mind around relaxed is fast. I know in some part of my brain it's true, but that seems to go out the window most of the time. I'm not going to beat myself up over it... it will come in time. I find that I need to work in one or two areas at a time. If I try and do to much it all falls apart and everything is sloppy. I guess I can walk and chew gum, but not talk on the cell phone too.

As to the dry reloads... ah, you know me well already X. I flat out hate dry drills. I do not do dry fire unless I know I'm having an issue. It's not so much laziness, but boredom. Reloads dry isn't bad, but dryfire drills...... yawn.

Thanks for everyones advice... I appreciate the help in that it saves me time and ammo.

Best,

JT

Edited July 16, 2007 by JThompson

[No.343]

What do you think of this idea? This is what happens when you are on the road too long and can only dry fire. Adjust the slide transition times to speed it up.

Stages.ppt

[tightloop]

Ran a couple of GM runs on this yesterday - best runs were punctuated with an overall feeling of smooth, calm shooting. Had a couple of tense runs, too, that didn't work out as well. Last run was a 4.74 down 1, first run was a 4.79 down 6 - up and down in the middle of that. On the last run, I had a 1.2 T&D - I didn't note the reload, but it was in the 1.1-1.2 range, judging by feel - and the rest felt sharp and unhurried.

Performance on this stage seems to go in jumps for me - last time I worked this stage, I couldn't seem to manage a GM run without really pushing it. That was a few months back. Now it seems like a low GM-ish run cold, and 100%+ warm is the norm.

Having a reliable 1.2-ish reload is important, Jim - you can help make the dry reloads more fun by varying up how you're working them, and telling yourself that this will make a huge difference in the "wet" reloads - and help you save ammo for other drills...

Those are some killer runs... esp if they felt smooth. Thinking back, most of the runs I made felt a little tense. It was almost a feeling of throwing a ball instead tossing one. I did feel a few good ones, but it's still hard to get my mind around relaxed is fast. I know in some part of my brain it's true, but that seems to go out the window most of the time. I'm not going to beat myself up over it... it will come in time. I find that I need to work in one or two areas at a time. If I try and do to much it all falls apart and everything is sloppy. I guess I can walk and chew gum, but not talk on the cell phone too.

As to the dry reloads... ah, you know me well already X. I flat out hate dry drills. I do not do dry fire unless I know I'm having an issue. It's not so much laziness, but boredom. Reloads dry isn't bad, but dryfire drills...... yawn.

Thanks for everyones advice... I appreciate the help in that it saves me time and ammo.

Best,

JT

Need to adjust your thinking about dry fire drills...good stuff and will show improvement very quickly...I bet most GM's do more dry fire than actual shooting for practice.

[dirtypool40]

I bet most GM's do more dry fire than actual shooting for practice.

I'm new to that particular pond, I guess you could say I'm in the clubhouse, but I made it into the club yet.

Me personally, once I get out of practice, I NEED live fire to get hits where the sights are pointing. I am also finding out I cannot get back up to where I was without DRY FIRE. Jeez, funny thing, you made it with dry fire, why did you think you could stop? DUH!!!

Hey did you see the other Summer Blast scores? TJ laid down a greasy 4.70 -1. Yowzer.

[tightloop]

In the Old Days, there were no forums like this and no great shooters to teach you, so we had to find out everything by ourselves or with our shooting buddies...litterly firing 50K + rounds each year...it was not till the end of my first IPSC/USPSA stint that I quite by accident discovered the virtues of dry fire...Shooting a big match in Austin, Tx and went a week early to visit some friends in the Hill Country...planned to shoot every day to keep in tune...you got it, rained all day each day....no actual firing time at the range...so my bud and I did about 3 hrs of dry fire each day, for lack of something constructive to do....Yep, you guessed it, he and I finished 1st and 2nd in the match...and I shot the fastest times of my career to that date...been a believer since then... Reestablished the practice when I was shamed into dryfiring when the sub 3 sec El Prez thread first got started...shot a best of 6.20+ and Steve Anderson as much as told me to keep trying cause that was OK, but not very fast...well, in 45 days, I shot a personal best of 4.21 with my skinny gun...haven't beaten that yet, but I would still be thinking 6.5+ was good unless reminded of dry fire by Steve....

Edited July 16, 2007 by tightloop

[JThompson]

I understand that it helps and some very good shooters do it religiously, but if I'm not having fun I refuse to do it. What can I say....? I got into this for the pure fun of it... if it's going to be work then I'd rather go have a beer. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind work, just not the kind that makes me want to have a nap.

JT

[tightloop]

I understand that it helps and some very good shooters do it religiously, but if I'm not having fun I refuse to do it. What can I say....? I got into this for the pure fun of it... if it's going to be work then I'd rather go have a beer. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind work, just not the kind that makes me want to have a nap.

JT

Got to tell you...fully 99% of the shooters who participate in this forum are trying to kick some a** when they hear LAMR...having fun is great, but if you can win and have fun at the same time....double your pleasure, double your fun...

To each his own..

[XRe]

Continuing the thread drift...

The thing, TL, is that many folks have different goals in mind out of this game... If JT's entire goal is to have fun and see where it goes, he may not be driven to succeed like a lot of folks around here. And that's just peachy He has to accept the results of that goal and effort, and he has the right to change his goal if he's unsatisfied with those results.

JT, if you decide at some point that just having fun isn't enough, and you want to push harder and are willing to do what it takes... sometimes the ends justify the means..... Let me tell you, its excessively fun and rewarding, and, for me, the work is definitely worth it - but it meets my goals, not yours, and therein lies a big difference

Too, some folks feel that dry fire is unnecessary or somehow is worthless after a point, and maybe that's what works for them. You won't find them to be in the majority around here, though.... not that that means anything, good or bad....

[JThompson]

Continuing the thread drift...

The thing, TL, is that many folks have different goals in mind out of this game... If JT's entire goal is to have fun and see where it goes, he may not be driven to succeed like a lot of folks around here. And that's just peachy He has to accept the results of that goal and effort, and he has the right to change his goal if he's unsatisfied with those results.

JT, if you decide at some point that just having fun isn't enough, and you want to push harder and are willing to do what it takes... sometimes the ends justify the means..... Let me tell you, its excessively fun and rewarding, and, for me, the work is definitely worth it - but it meets my goals, not yours, and therein lies a big difference

Too, some folks feel that dry fire is unnecessary or somehow is worthless after a point, and maybe that's what works for them. You won't find them to be in the majority around here, though.... not that that means anything, good or bad....

I agree with you... some people are more driven than I am, but don't think I can't kick a little ass doing it my way. Winning is fun and the short time I've been shooting this style, I've come a long way. I figure, I'm prob shooting B most of the time and lift that to an A now and then. Hell, I've had an open gun for less than three months... I'd say that's pretty damn good.

You're right, there may be a time where I revise my goals. For now, I don't want the added pressure. I have enough stress in my life as it is. When I'm going balls to the wall doing anything, I don't usually have the most fun. That's not to say I will not put in some hours at the range. Hell, I'm the MD for the next event at the club. I will probably go my own way until I reach a point where I feel I'm not progressing as I should, and then I will consider it and decide whether I want to go to the next level. Until then, I'm just having one hell of a time and my frustration level is zero.

I think I would fare well against anyone who started shooting 3 months ago. Thanks for your understanding... I may not always do what "most" do, but I have a tendency to get to the place I want to go.

Best,

JT

[tightloop]

Continuing the thread drift...

The thing, TL, is that many folks have different goals in mind out of this game... If JT's entire goal is to have fun and see where it goes, he may not be driven to succeed like a lot of folks around here. And that's just peachy He has to accept the results of that goal and effort, and he has the right to change his goal if he's unsatisfied with those results.

JT, if you decide at some point that just having fun isn't enough, and you want to push harder and are willing to do what it takes... sometimes the ends justify the means..... Let me tell you, its excessively fun and rewarding, and, for me, the work is definitely worth it - but it meets my goals, not yours, and therein lies a big difference

Too, some folks feel that dry fire is unnecessary or somehow is worthless after a point, and maybe that's what works for them. You won't find them to be in the majority around here, though.... not that that means anything, good or bad....

I agree with you... some people are more driven than I am, but don't think I can't kick a little ass doing it my way. Winning is fun and the short time I've been shooting this style, I've come a long way. I figure, I'm prob shooting B most of the time and lift that to an A now and then. Hell, I've had an open gun for less than three months... I'd say that's pretty damn good.

You're right, there may be a time where I revise my goals. For now, I don't want the added pressure. I have enough stress in my life as it is. When I'm going balls to the wall doing anything, I don't usually have the most fun. That's not to say I will not put in some hours at the range. Hell, I'm the MD for the next event at the club. I will probably go my own way until I reach a point where I feel I'm not progressing as I should, and then I will consider it and decide whether I want to go to the next level. Until then, I'm just having one hell of a time and my frustration level is zero.

I think I would fare well against anyone who started shooting 3 months ago. Thanks for your understanding... I may not always do what "most" do, but I have a tendency to get to the place I want to go.

Best,

JT

Glad you have progressed in so short a time...different personality types need different things to stimulate and motivate them...I would certainly be pleased like you at the progress you have made, but even shooting A scores, unless you have no M or GM shooters in your club it means someone is handing you your hat each match saying....thanks for showing up and finishing 2nd or 4th....Now if you are content with 2nd or 4th, great...but my personality is such that I feel like I might finish at the TOP if I worked a little harder, had just a little less fun at the matchs, put in an extra 30 minutes of dry fire each day....As my old boss used to say..."If you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes." Takes all kinds to make up this sport and just rereading the personality thread before this one..just maybe I could be wrong with my approach, since my type is by far in the minority...against mostly INTJ's....and the like...but they're probably just misguided or plain wrong...LOL

As they say in business...have a plan, work the plan and if the plan isn't getting you there revise the plan....this kind of shooting is always a plan in revision...cause just when you think you are THERE, something or someone finds a way to let you know you might not be quite THERE yet..

[alellis]

What do you think of this idea? This is what happens when you are on the road too long and can only dry fire. Adjust the slide transition times to speed it up.

How do I get it to run.

al

[JThompson]

Glad you have progressed in so short a time...different personality types need different things to stimulate and motivate them...I would certainly be pleased like you at the progress you have made, but even shooting A scores, unless you have no M or GM shooters in your club it means someone is handing you your hat each match saying....thanks for showing up and finishing 2nd or 4th....Now if you are content with 2nd or 4th, great...but my personality is such that I feel like I might finish at the TOP if I worked a little harder, had just a little less fun at the matchs, put in an extra 30 minutes of dry fire each day....As my old boss used to say..."If you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes." Takes all kinds to make up this sport and just rereading the personality thread before this one..just maybe I could be wrong with my approach, since my type is by far in the minority...against mostly INTJ's....and the like...but they're probably just misguided or plain wrong...LOL

As they say in business...have a plan, work the plan and if the plan isn't getting you there revise the plan....this kind of shooting is always a plan in revision...cause just when you think you are THERE, something or someone finds a way to let you know you might not be quite THERE yet..

We have an M or two in dif classes than me and there are a couple of Ms that show up to the monthly matches. In our once a week practice matches, there are only As and Bs. They lump everyone into one overall class for that match, so I look better than I am. I've been in the top five several times and 2-3 a couple, but that's not really fair considering I shoot open and that's a combo of Prod, L10 Limited etc.

I guess I hope that, "lead dog" has a nice ass.

Jim

[mike cyrwus]

Ive been hitting el prez hard the last two days at the range. probably ran it 30-40 times.

Im averaging 6 sec flat, with about 4-5 down.

My reload is always between 1.6 and 1.8sec.

I guess I need to practice the reload, huh?

[tightloop]

You can probably make up more time on transitions and the draw/turn than anywhere else...the reload isn't holding you back from a mid to low 5 sec run...

[dirtypool40]

I hit this today in practice as the first shots fired, so it should count as a cold run.

Dry fired it 3-4 times then LAMR.

4.44 -9 (yeah, I know ) For an 11.xx hf.

1.20 draw, 1.04 load.

[XRe]

Whadda ya mean "yeah, I know"??? That's smokin', dude, even down the points...

[JThompson]

Ive been hitting el prez hard the last two days at the range. probably ran it 30-40 times.

Im averaging 6 sec flat, with about 4-5 down.

My reload is always between 1.6 and 1.8sec.

I guess I need to practice the reload, huh?

I'd like to see mine in the 1-1.2 range.