Model19 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 This is probably an old and beat to death subject, but I need the help. This was posted in the IDPA section recently: 22) Also for SSR shooters - Work up/choose a load that doesn't require brushing out your chambers for the entire match...and brush out your chambers every chance you get. I'm an IDPA newbie using a model 19 and loading with Unique (some of the old timers at the club call it "oink") because it is what I have used in my slow fire casual shooting .38 loads (different pistol used) for a few years. This is a whole different game, and I've had the revolver get dirty enough to act up after awhile in practice. So what's the overall opinion on the cleanest powder you might find for a .357 or similar? Geoff PS: I'm enjoying IDPA so much I've put Highpower aside for the summer. I get the usual jibes from my Hi-PO pals, but I can take it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Universal and Power Pistol are in the same speed range and are very clean with jacketed bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Geoff - I'm the guy who wrote that post, and like most of the folks who posted there, I learned that lesson the hard way. I'm using Titegroup with 158 grain Berry's plated RNs, and I'm happy with the cleanliness of the load. Hodgdon lists a max +P load of 4.3 grains, and that makes a 130 PF in my M10, but not my M19. It's clean in my guns, but others haven't had the same experience. In a .357, you could bump it up a bit if necessary. Straight Clays is extremely clean, but will not make the PF from a 4" gun using listed data, even with lead bullets. Again, you can get away with bumping it up a little to make the PF in a .357. I tried it, and it works well with coated lead bullets. Unique is a lousy powder for .38 Special, but it's my choice for .357 Mag lead bullet loads in ESR. The additional pressure makes it burns much more cleanly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 People have to brush out their cylinders during a match? I don't think I ever have had to regardless of whether I was shooting a 627 or a 610. Solo 1000 in the 627 and Ramshot competition in the 610. Bullseye is also popular as is regular Clays (Not universal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I've been using Bullseye for years in my revolvers. The .38 special load I use to make minor is only listed in older loading manuals. I use plated or jacketed for matches. I never brush my gun during a match. Sometimes I use lead for practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Model19 Posted June 13, 2007 Author Share Posted June 13, 2007 Geoff - I'm the guy who wrote that post, and like most of the folks who posted there, I learned that lesson the hard way. I'm using Titegroup with 158 grain Berry's plated RNs, and I'm happy with the cleanliness of the load. Hodgdon lists a max +P load of 4.3 grains, and that makes a 130 PF in my M10, but not my M19. It's clean in my guns, but others haven't had the same experience. In a .357, you could bump it up a bit if necessary. Straight Clays is extremely clean, but will not make the PF from a 4" gun using listed data, even with lead bullets. Again, you can get away with bumping it up a little to make the PF in a .357. I tried it, and it works well with coated lead bullets. Unique is a lousy powder for .38 Special, but it's my choice for .357 Mag lead bullet loads in ESR. The additional pressure makes it burns much more cleanly. The more I've looked into this, I can see that getting a more complete burn from any powder has everything to do with pressure. This got me thinking about the last session I shot and now I remember that there was less unburned powder evident. The only change I had made was to increase the crimp and that was simply to help loading with my comp3's. Previously I had been loading with only a VERY light crimp, like a bullseye load for my old K-38. So I think the tighter crimp has cleaned things up a bit. I just loaded 100rnds of ammo today and increased the crimp a tiny bit more. I plan on a practice session tomorrow afternoon so I'll see how clean things are after that. Otherwise I'm happy with Unique in my .357 so far. The load is 5.8gr Unique behind a 158gr LRNFP in .357 brass with CCI primers( a whole separate subject). I was using 5.6gr of Unique, but the Chrony showed a spread that might not always make the PF for SSR in IDPA. This is still light loading for .357 but uncoated lead means I need to load that way. Other posts here have got me thinking about coated lead like Bear and others make, so I plan on getting some of those bullets to use as I get some leading now as it is. If the Unique is still shooting dirty after tomorrow's session, I'll start experimenting. I have some Bullseye on the shelf from my .45 days to try right off. I just hate resetting the Square Deals powder thrower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter K Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I would use some of the Vihtavuori-powders. They are a bit expensive but very clean burning. Maybe N320 could be a good choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I was using 5.6gr of Unique, but the Chrony showed a spread that might not always make the PF for SSR in IDPA. This is still light loading for .357 but uncoated lead means I need to load that way.Geoff - My load is right off Alliant's site - 6.8 grains of Unique under a 158 grain uncoated RNL. It runs +1100 fps from my 4" guns and doesn't lead, and leaves little if any residue behind. Insufficient pressure is the cause of leading with hardcast bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooterj Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 IMR Trail Boss is very clean with lead bullets. I shot the entire ICORE Southern Regional and did not have to brush the cylinder at all. Max load from the IMR book gave me a 127 power factor with 160gr lrn in.38 special cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Model19 Posted June 14, 2007 Author Share Posted June 14, 2007 [\quote]Geoff - My load is right off Alliant's site - 6.8 grains of Unique under a 158 grain uncoated RNL. It runs +1100 fps from my 4" guns and doesn't lead, and leaves little if any residue behind. Insufficient pressure is the cause of leading with hardcast bullets. Umm... dumb question coming.. I thought that higher velocities caused leading and this is why gas checks are so often mentioned when velocities creep up to 1100fps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Model19 Posted June 16, 2007 Author Share Posted June 16, 2007 I put 100 rounds downrange Thursday night after upping the powder charge by 2/10th's and increasing the crimp. The old 19 was cleaner by far this time. I might up the charge a little more, as I'm still well below max load limits and see what that does, but I want to keep muzzle flip minimized so that might be my limiting factor. So thanks for all the input. It does appear that Unique can be a clean powder to use, it only gets real dirty at low pressure loadings. I'll burn up this bottle for the time being. Next it's on to coated lead bullets as an experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 Might try Solo 1000. Super clean and single-base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 IMR Trail Boss with lead bullets or either Titegroup or American Selct with eiother playted or jacketd bullets will provide clean burning. Stay away from the slower powders such as Unique. This is probably an old and beat to death subject, but I need the help. This was posted in the IDPA section recently: 22) Also for SSR shooters - Work up/choose a load that doesn't require brushing out your chambers for the entire match...and brush out your chambers every chance you get. I'm an IDPA newbie using a model 19 and loading with Unique (some of the old timers at the club call it "oink") because it is what I have used in my slow fire casual shooting .38 loads (different pistol used) for a few years. This is a whole different game, and I've had the revolver get dirty enough to act up after awhile in practice. So what's the overall opinion on the cleanest powder you might find for a .357 or similar? Geoff PS: I'm enjoying IDPA so much I've put Highpower aside for the summer. I get the usual jibes from my Hi-PO pals, but I can take it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I had the same problem with my Mod 19 using HS-6. I started using V320 and the problem went away. Clean as a whistle. V320 is kinda expensive and now I use TiteGroup. It smokes a bit and is cleaner the HS-6 although not as clean as V320. FWIW dj OBTW, I also found that if you load mouse-fart loads, you will tend to have a dirtier cylinder. Loading to major power factor seems in my case to ensure that all the powder is burned. dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffl Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 IMR Trail Boss is very clean with lead bullets. I shot the entire ICORE Southern Regional and did not have to brush the cylinder at all. Max load from the IMR book gave me a 127 power factor with 160gr lrn in.38 special cases. I shot the ICORE match after the Sunflower Classic as well as the IRC this year using mixed brass, 4.0 Gr of IMR Trail Boss with a Precision 200 Gr RN Bullet 45 ACP in a 625 5" PF was 136 I think. I had upped it because the 3.8 Gr. was only getting me barely 120 PF an some times 116pf. I think it is clean burning and I didn't have to clean at all between stages or matches for that matter. david Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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