phara Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Occassionally I have to really punch the empty rounds out of my 625 (putting ring shaped cuts on the palm of my hand) when reloading. With my K frame model 66 I was able to get a honer from Brownells and enlarge the chambers just a bit to take care of this problem. Although I can get a 45 long colt honer from Brownells I can't find one for 45 ACP. I would imagine this is because you could hone down the headspacing ledge inside the chamber so that the cartridge could no longer headspace on the cartridge mouth. I was thinking that since we always use moons in competition, the chamber headspacing ledge isn't important enough to worry about. So I could just go ahead and hone to my heart's content. Any thoughts on this issue would be appreciated. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 My .02 is NOT to enlarge the throat of your cyl.to the same as brass dia. this would most likely result in accuracy problems, ideally throat dia should be slightly less than bore dia. ( bullets should never drop through cyl )Im sure a real ( professional ) smith can go into further detail, but IMHO its not a good solution. Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 If it really bothers you (and I know it bothered me), why not use the thumb of your hand to toss out the empties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted January 20, 2003 Author Share Posted January 20, 2003 Travis, Thanks for saving me from myself! I hadn't considered that. And Spook, pulling the empties out with my thumb is always an option, but not a good one to use on a regular basis when every second counts in competition! Thanks, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2alpha Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Phara, have you measured your chambers? Maybe you have one or two that are small, if so a reamer could be the answer. Polishing the chambers on the 625 is not that much different than the others if you really think about it. You wouldn't want to enlarge the throat on any revolver and the precautions are about the same, just don't let your hone go that far. I think a small 3 stone hone like is used for automotive brake cyl's might work. It would be easier to maintain the depth than with the flexhone type although Brownells does sell a fkexhone for the 45 acp. One other thing, how about your cases? Do you get them nice and clean and bright? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 No phara, I don't mean PULLING them out. When you reload, you toss the cylinder open with the fingers of your weak hand, right? (if not, ignore the rest of this BS ) You can then, at the same time push the rod with your thumb. This saves time (no "second"movement) and it is less painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted January 20, 2003 Author Share Posted January 20, 2003 2 alpha, thanks for the advice. I'm glad to here there is hope. I'll start by measuring the chambers. Spook, sorry I mis-read your post. I do reload the way you described. The problem is that occassionally the cases are so stuck my weakhand thumb won't eject the cases, then I have to resort to popping the ejector with my strong hand palm. It happens about once or twice a match, and it can happen at the beginning or end or in the middle stages of a match. Thanks much for your thoughts, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Although I have done it, I'm not too keen on using power to polish the chamber, pistol or revolver. One "oops" and you're in expensive territory. An ultra fine cylindrical ceramic stone. That, and tracking down which one is the culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted January 20, 2003 Author Share Posted January 20, 2003 Patrick, Doing it by hand with a cylindrical ceramic stone, how do you make sure your taking material out evenly? Thanks, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Paul, How old are your cases? I've had this problem with my 38 and solved it with new cases. It's worth a try before resorting to more drastic measures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted January 21, 2003 Author Share Posted January 21, 2003 George, Yes that is a possibility. I use any old brass I can scrounge at the range. When I am making rounds for a semi-auto I have found it a little disturbing that a significant portion of my rounds do not pass the case guage test after I make them. When making rounds for my 625 I load 30 moons and then drop them into the revolver cylinder (removed from the gun of course!) before a match. So I use the cylinder as a case guage, moonclip checker. The chambers aren't as picky as the case guage. Maybe I need to be pickier. I think I will try case guaging first and then loading up some moons and go practice and see what happens. But that brings up another question - Is it normal for the Dillon 650 not to size 45's perfectly? Or is that an issue with older brass? Thanks again, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmallPaul Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 phara: Even with a "full length" resize the area around the web of a fired case may not be brought back to "factory spec" and be slightly buldged. This can be exasperated by using brass that has been run though an auto with an "unsuported" chamber since the case has a uneven buldge. I know that when I started loading for a 8-Shot 38 Super I had to get all new brass for it before I could even chamber a round, and keep them seperate from the brass for the auto that I was shooting at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Paul, The problem I had with old cases didn't show itself until they were hot, after firing. They used to load into the chambers easily but were very hard to eject. If you are using mixed cases from the range I would say this is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted January 21, 2003 Author Share Posted January 21, 2003 Yikes guys, I think we're on to something. I'll try new brass before I begin surgery on my poor little gun. (But it's gonna be hard parting with my cash to buy that brass!). Thanks to all, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Also phara, you can fix the dillon problem, by installing one of those full lenght size dies, I think Lee makes one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viggen Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 You might also consider a case resizer that does the entire case. I think the company is called Magma, located in Queen Creek, Arizona. The have a push through resizer for rimless cases. They are the same folks who make the Star Lube/Sizer, the best on the market. So, you have couple of possible options - new brass, Lee full length(if it works) and the Magma unit. And all this time I thought revolvers were simple things and nothing ever could go wrong. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 "Lee carbide dies are contour ground to provide step-less sizing. After sizing a case, except for the burnish, you cannot tell where the sizer stopped. Other brands leave a pronounced step where the die stops. " This is from the Lee site. I'm not so sure that this indicates a full length resize. I don't think that there is space in the shell plate to allow a full length resize. The Magma product is a separate machine that pushes the rim-less case through a sizing die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted January 21, 2003 Author Share Posted January 21, 2003 George, Looking at the shell plate I think your right. I think I'll just buy some new brass. At least when we shoot moons we get all our brass back (although sometimes they are pretty mangled!). By the way, does anyone know the proper diameter of the 625 chamber and what the acceptable tolerances are? Thanks, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooterj Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 I use an Allison speed brush with stainless brushes on it between stages. One or two passes and I'm ready for the next stage. If I forget to brush the cylinders, I can be assured my 610 won't turn loose at least one moon during the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted January 21, 2003 Author Share Posted January 21, 2003 scooterj, I tried the speed brushes on my K frame 66 for a while but didn't find their standard nylon brushes strong enough to do the job. Are you using "after market "stainless brushes and are they bore brushes and not chamber brushes? I would be surprised if you could use 6 chamber brushes all at once! But if it's possible I would give it a try. Thanks, Paul (Edited by phara at 4:58 pm on Jan. 21, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmallPaul Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 An alternative to the Allison is to get an inexpensive cordless drill or screwdriver and a short cleaning rod with chamber brush. Couple of quick passes and the cylinder is "squeeky clean". Ah the memories of the AZ shooters having a "gang clean" in the IRC safety areas. (Edited by SmallPaul at 9:39 pm on Jan. 21, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted January 22, 2003 Author Share Posted January 22, 2003 "Ah the memories of the AZ shooters having a "gang clean" in the IRC safety areas" Oh yes, the Wild Bunch. Crazy but loveable! and boy can they shoot revolvers!!! Thanks for the tip about the cordless drill. Paul (Edited by phara at 7:52 pm on Jan. 21, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Hmm, good question on keeping it concentric. Since my procedure starts with a chamber reamer, I guess I never ran into a problem, as I was simply making sure it was properly sized then polishing all the way around. And the power drill clean? Ah, memories of gun clenaing at Second Chance, huddled aorund a bonfire of burning bowling pins. Or at the cabin, with a dozen rabid pin shooters scrubbing guns. (Edited by Patrick Sweeney at 7:50 am on Jan. 23, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted January 23, 2003 Author Share Posted January 23, 2003 Patrick, Thanks for the info. Knowing my skill level when doing things manually I had visions of oblong cylinders in my worst nightmares! Re: power drill chamber cleaning. I did try this once on my model 66 with a power drill and stainless steel chamber brushes from Brownells. The 38/357 chamber brushes are exceedingly tight!!! So when I ran the power drill the chamber brush shaft first corksrewed and then snapped off. All of this in a heartbeat, leaving a hard to remove chamber brush lodged in a chamber. I couldn't believe this was the normal state of affairs so I tried it again and guess what? Of course I had another snapped off, stuck chamber brush. Could it be that people are using bore brushes instead of chamber brushes to do the power drill operation since they would not be as tight in the chambers? This time, I'll wait to find out! Paul (Edited by phara at 9:36 am on Jan. 23, 2003) (Edited by phara at 9:59 am on Jan. 23, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmallPaul Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Quote: from phara on 9:31 am on Jan. 23, 2003 Patrick, Re: power drill chamber cleaning. I did try this once on my model 66 with a power drill and stainless steel chamber brushes from Brownells. The 38/357 chamber brushes are exceedingly tight!!! So when I ran the power drill the chamber brush shaft first corksrewed and then snapped off. All of this in a heartbeat, leaving a hard to remove chamber brush lodged in a chamber. I couldn't believe this was the normal state of affairs so I tried it again and guess what? Of course I had another snapped off, stuck chamber brush. Could it be that people are using bore brushes instead of chamber brushes to do the power drill operation since they would not be as tight in the chambers? This time, I'll wait to find out! Paul (Edited by phara at 9:36 am on Jan. 23, 2003) (Edited by phara at 9:59 am on Jan. 23, 2003) Not sure from your description if you have the drill rotating before you insert the brush or not. If you just stick the brush into the cylinder and then try to get the brush to turn I can well understand why you had "busted brushes syndrom", try inserting an already spinning brush and see how that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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