Aftec And Recoil Master Spring Questions

[CDRODA396]

I have several questions I thought I'd consolidate into one thread to save space. All topics have been discussed in various threads but I didnt see answers to these specific questions. All are regarding an Edge .40. Thanks in advance for any and all input!

1) When "fitting" an AFTEC ACE, in the instructions, and several threads, they talk about "rounding" the edge of the FPS to allow the extractor to "pivot" on the stop. When you do this, do you just round the edge where the extractor fits to the FPS, or roll the entire length of the right side of the FPS?

2) Once you "round" the edge of the FPS, will the FPS still work with a standard extractor being kept as a backup? or do I need to get a second FPS to go with the standard extractor?

3) When replacing the Heavy Recoil Master (outer) spring, does using the Light (outer) spring make it a Light RM or somewhere inbetween a Light and Heavy...anyone know the approximate spring weight if you keep the Heavy captured spring and use the Light big spring?

Thanks again, PH

[ima45dv8]

1. I break the edge along the entire length (it's not vey long to start with), on both the front and rear edges.

2. Yes, will still work with a "standard" extractor.

3. I don't know.

[CDRODA396]

1. I break the edge along the entire length (it's not vey long to start with), on both the front and rear edges.

2. Yes, will still work with a "standard" extractor.

3. I don't know.

Thanks for the response, I plan to give it a go this weekend.

Any takers on question #3, I know someone on here has tried it!

[XRe]

Do a search on the forum for Recoil Master threads - I believe someone covered this data at some point. I don't want to tell you the wrong thing - but IIRC, you'd end up with an "in between" configuration. I recall someone having a conversation w/ Chris @ STI, and he gave them the specs on the springs....

Regarding breaking the edge on the FP stop - you don't actually have to round them off, per se. Just break them. On my Open gun, the front and back corners are cut flat at a 45 degree angle, not rounded. The gun was built by the guy who designed the extractor, so I figure that's how it was meant to be done...

[Crusher]

3) When replacing the Heavy Recoil Master (outer) spring, does using the Light (outer) spring make it a Light RM or somewhere inbetween a Light and Heavy...anyone know the approximate spring weight if you keep the Heavy captured spring and use the Light big spring?

I've tried this set-up in an Edge and it "feels" like it is stronger than the light RM but lighter than the heavy.

FWIW I did not like this setup (heavy captured/light outer) because the impulse at frame contact was much "sharper" than the standard heavy RM set-up. I was not able to maintain the same timing (because of the sharp frame impact) I am with heavy RM or a straight 12.5 IMSI and one piece steel GR. but YMMV, give it a try, you may like the guns timing.

[CDRODA396]

Thanks to the input from all.

I installed the AFTEC on Friday. I broke the edge with a stone, and headed to the range. It extracts fine, but I now have a failure to feed, on the last round, magazine imaterial.

The round hits the top of the chamber at an angle that wont let it slide on in.

So, today I removed the FPS, cleaned it up with a file to ensure I broke the edge and not just shined it up with the stone, and back to the range. Again, flawless extraction, but fairly common FTF on the last round.

I am thinking that my magazine springs might be weak, and that this is causing the last round to sit in the magazine at a bad angle and it is nothing to do with the AFTEC. They are Gramms springs, all installed at the same time. I already had replacements on order just to have on hand. I believe the rough round count per magazine would be in the 600-700 range.

Any thoughts?

(Edited to add FTF description)

Edited March 24, 2007 by CDRODA396

[Flexmoney]

Did it do that before you relaced stuff ?

[HSMITH]

Take one spring out of the Aftec, run the gun. If it works fine on the last round you have too much extractor tension with both springs in. It might run just fine with one spring, or you might want to shorten one spring a little by stoning it.

[CDRODA396]

Did it do that before you relaced stuff ?

Flex, No, it was running fine before hand. My extractor broke back in Feb. and I ordered a standard one and an AFTEC to be able to keep a replacement on hand. The standard one came in first so I got it up and running, learning as I went.

Now I'm trying to master the AFTEC.

HSMITH,

Until you mentioned this, I completely forgot that even the instructions mention compressing the springs and holding for a 10 count if you are having problems...so I'll give this a go at the range Tuesday evening, try the one spring, and see how things come out.

As always, I'll post the results.

[TONY BARONE]

When the aftec first came on the market they came with four springs, two lite and two standard. A variety of extractor tension is available with different combinations. I don't know why they discontinued the lite springs.

[XRe]

I'm digging in the way back machine, now, but.... IIRC, when the AFTECs first started shipping, they had one spring rate only, and the extractor only shipped with the two springs required to install it. There was a different spring rate between the 9mm-ish extractors (9mm/.38) and the larger calibers. Experiments were done to enable guns to run that would only run with "lighter than normal" extractor tension (for whatever reason that was...), including using the lighter springs.... In the end, again IIRC, it was decided that really only one spring rate was required across the board, and that it helped to have some spares in the package rather than have to ship them out....

Or, something to that effect... My memory of that period is pretty vague - it was while burnout was setting in, and I took my six year break shortly after that period in time (and AFTEC changed hands a couple of times in the interim).

If you really, really wanted to know, I could find out...

Also along the way, they discovered various issues w/ the springs, including one really nasty one that turned out to be the heat treater's fault - they were heat treating the springs in a big pile and they weren't being evenly treated. The ones on the perimeter were good - the ones inside the pile were not...

The real trivia question is.... what baked in the heat treat oven alongside the prototype extractor???

[CDRODA396]

The Latest!

Ok, took all my mags and made sure they were tip top shape. I have two Brazos' Tuned with Grams pads and internals, one Dawson Tuned, all Dawson, one STI body purchased from Shooters and "Me" tuned with Gramms pads and internals, and one STI body, also from Shooters Connection with an IMSI spring and Arrendondo follower...you know, test the field! Up til now, all have performed with very few issues. Usually at about 400 rounds the Gramms springs are easily an inch shorter than when they were new, so I carefully expand them back to their original length. I put one new spring in just to be sure that I was not dealing with magazine issues.

Went to range...luckily, its empty save me, and the floor is clean swept.

First run with five rounds in each mag...all five had a failure to feed as described in my first post, with the LAST round only. Brass is as far away as 15' +/-.

So, out comes the AFTEC and I removed the front spring per HSMITH's recommendation, and five more mags. Two mags had last round FTF. Note which mags (all are numbered) and test again...two FTF from two different mags. Brass is still sailing, but not as far.

So, out comes the AFTEC and I put the one spring in the front hole and test again. This time all run fine. Brass is 5 or 6' in its usual place on the floor. Go again, one FTF, again none. By the time I went through the last 30 rounds, this time three in the mag to stretch the test, I had no more FTF.

So I am confident it had too much tension as mentioned by HSMITH...I am guessing this is also why brass was jumping across the range with two springs in it?

Also, is it kosher to run just the one spring? I know that tampering with the claw voids the warranty, but really with this type part is there much to the warranty once you get a couple thousand rounds through it?

Or should I compress/stone until it runs with both "adjusted" springs?

I dont mind tinkering with it, just dont have the knowledge base I wish I had so I keep asking!

Thanks again for all and any input!

[HSMITH]

I run just one spring in several guns. A lot of it has to do with where the extractor bore is in relation to the centerline of the slide. If the centerline of the slide and extractor bore are closer than nominal you will need less tension than you would if they were farther apart. I have 5 STI slides running Aftecs now, 3 use one spring in the front hole and the other two use both springs full length. The other slides I have running Aftecs are also hit or miss, some of them take full length springs in both holes and some won't. The bottom line is you need to find out what your gun wants and give it that, not what works for everyone else.

If you want to shorten a spring as short and tight as the Aftec springs stone it down, no heat of concequence is generated, you lower tension, and it only takes a minute. Smashing them with a pair of pliers is another way, but getting predictable and repeabable results using that method is like trying to win the lottery. From what I have seen the heat treat, construction and overall length of Aftec springs in the last year are pretty darn consistent, what worked a year ago will almost positively work now. I think if you run just one or figure out what length the second spring needs to be and make a couple spares now you will be set for years to come.