Performing on demand...

[Ron Ankeny]

I need a coach. I am really struggling with my draw.

I dry fire almost every morning. I can set a target 8 yards away (that's the area I have in my home) and set par times on my timer down to 1.2 or so and get the dot on the A and trigger before the buzzer every time. When I go to the range, I can hit the  A zone at 10 yards, on demand, day in and day out, in practice, in 1.2 to 1.3 seconds without even feeling rushed. At one second, I hit mostly A's with a few C's and a rare D.

But along comes a match and I am very slow on the draw. My transitions, splits, accuracy, etc. don't suffer in a match (unless I just go too fast) but my draw sucks. For instance, today I shot Bang and Clang in 2.70 seconds. I took one second to do the shooting and 1.70 seconds to draw. That is a C-D class draw with Master class transitions, splits, and accuracy. This happens constantly. I shoot a lot of speed shoots with a 1.5 to 1.6 draw and .13-15 splits and .20 or less transitions. I really want to improve, but I can't seem to solve the problem working alone. I am open to suggestions.

[Nik Habicht]

Ron,

Knowing how you've struggled with the new blaster, do you feel confident in your ability to hit the first target when you're standing in the box?  Is there a mental difference between match and practice?  Ignore what your Limited/L10/Production experience tells you and just try to remember how you feel when you shoot open.  If you perceive a lack of confidence, I can only suggest that it will go away with experience.  

Every fall when I have to make the transition from shooting baseball at work to shooting soccer and football, I have a confidence problem.  I'm not sure I can still adapt to the speed change that those sports require.  It takes a game or two to settle me down.

If it's not mental, I have no clue......

[Jake Di Vita]

I agree with Nik, it seems obvious that it's mental if you can do it all day long in practice, but have a hard time doing it in a match. I had the same problem for the longest time, couldn't even get my draw below 1.5. After really analyzing my problem in my head I came to the realization that my problem was that I was making a block inside of myself, after I realized this I focused on pulling the trigger as soon as I saw what I needed to see and it sorted itself out within a little over a week.

[Flexmoney]

Do about a hundred dry-fire draws in the saftey area right before the match.

Decrease the par time every 5-10 draws.  Take it down well below your normal "par" speed.  (go down to BoneDaddy speeds...0.55's)

[Ron Ankeny]

I talked to bonedaddy about this little problem and I think he nailed it, but he doesn't do the Open gig so we aren't sure. In practice, I am drawing and shooting one target. In a match I am drawing with the goal of being set up to shoot the entire array. There is a huge difference. I should have a match draw (based on known ability) of 1.2 seconds on targets at 8-15 yards.

So where is the extra .3-.5 seconds coming from? Bonedaddy suggets that I am probably trying to see something that I don't need to see to make the shot. I am not sure, but I think I am taking the time to center the dot in the display for fear of losing it after I go into warp drive. In any event, something is going on and I need to track it down. Just curious, have any of you open shooters tried setting a target up at say 5 yards and shoot it with the dot turned off? Would be a good way to check the old platform out.

Flexmoney:

Yeah right, a half second draw, lol. Maku mozo!

[Flexmoney]

Sounds like BD has you pointed in the right direction on the technical side...

What about the mental side.  I know that at the Tri-State Section Match...for a while I had convinced myself that I could see things well.  It took me a couple of stages the shake that out of my skull (One stage was only 40 points...that didn't cost me.  The next stage, I gave up some match points there.)

As for Maku mozo!...perhaps we aren't getting the proper meaning here on the forums?  It the context that you used it...it would appear to be a limiting factor?  Do you already have it in your head that you can't get to 0.55?  (That decreasing PAR time drill can be amazing.  When you go back to slower times...seems like you ahve all day.))

[Steve Anderson]

Also,

we may be going apples/oranges on the times comparison.

To draw and fire one shot is a task you can focus on.

To draw and fire the first shot of a long field course is a different task altogether.

Another question to get you thinking about the importance of a FAST draw:

When was the last time you lost a stage by 3 tenths of a second to a guy who had the EXACT same points?

SA

[BSeevers]

Years ago when we were developing dots I practiced without it on to be "ready"when it failed in a match. Which for you newbies,that we pressure tested them for, they broke so much I carried 2 backup Aimpoints at a time. I was using a part of the scope as a crude iron sight.

I think you just need more dry firing. I used to draw my Limited gun faster than my Open because it is shorter and lighter. Well now I have a Ti comp, hollow guide rod and wish I had a shorter gun. My Open times are better now but this could be just because I am better.

As Sam said don't see too much. See what you need to see to break the shot No more no less.

Also as you know the goal is for the dot to track right back to where it started.

[Ron Ankeny]

Flexmoney:

Nope, I don't have it in my head that I will never do a .55 draw. However, it is counter productive to set a goal that is neither realistic nor achievable within the time frame set for achieving the goal. I can't do a .55 second draw at my current skill level so why on earth would I practice with a timer set at such a silly par time? My best live fire draw to date runs in the neighborhood of .85. I don't have a problem setting a par time of .80 or .75 and going for that, but going for .55 is not the way I train.

Steve:

I have lost so many stages by less than a second that I can't even count them. I have lost several stages by less than .5 seconds. I addressed that in my original post, but I edited it out because of the length. Around here, we are getting into a lot of steel shooting. On steel, we all have the same points. We also do a lot of speed shoots because of the size of our bays.

Speed shoots are like shooting a classifier with a High Hit Factor of 14. How important is the draw? It's real important, especially in Open.

Yesterday the first stage I shot was a long field course with 32 rounds. My draw was probably around 1.7 because I went for a 14 yard mini-popper that activated a swinger first so I could leave on the close stuff. The transition and leaving was a lot more important than the draw.

The next course of fire was Bang and Clang. I shot the course in clean in 2.7 seconds with a muffed up 1.74 second draw for a hf of 11.1111. Now, the same run with a 1.2 draw (an achievable and realistic goal) would be 13.6363. That's the difference between a B class score and a GM score in open.

[Flexmoney]

Message received.  Sorry.

[Duane Thomas]

Several things occur to me. It could be the extra stress of a match is causing your muscles to tense up. Since the way we move fast is by contracting muscles, if they're already contracted (tense) we can't contract them much more, which means we don't move fast. Don't be afraid to get up there and really shake it out - I mean physically shake out your hands and arms and shoulders, rotate your head around like Danny Glover in Lethal Weapon, whatever it takes - to relax in the box.

It may be you're trying so hard to be fast you're really whipping the gun out and "tuning forking" it at the end. In dry fire you've got the whole "decreasing speed movement" thing down, but at a match - because you're trying so hard to be fast - you have to wait until the dot stops bouncing to trigger the shot.

It may be simply the knowledge that the gun is loaded. I think this is something that affects me. I don't have a problem pushing it in dry fire because there's really no penalty if I screw up. With live ammo there is. I believe that may slow me down, both in live fire practice and at a match, versus dry fire.

[shred]

Ron-- here's something to try:

My 'usual' practice draw on a close 8" plate from flat-footed is around 1.2. As an experiment, I tried drawing, then moving out of the box after shooting the plate. I was surprised to see my draw consistently 0.1 to 0.2 faster when I had to move, especially as I was starting to move and all.

I asked a friend to watch me carefully and his diagnosis was I was 'accepting less' sight picture and still making the hit.

FWIW,

[Steve Anderson]

Duane,

That has hapened to me too.

I can be on target in .7 no problem dry fire, but live fire has consequences...

SA

[j1b]

I don't know that my experience differs over what you are seeing Ron.

In the past I have almost always had a slower draw on stages or positions engaging multiple targets. I have no true reason for this - it simply is what it is.

I think it is always good to challenge yourself in dry fire - especially with par times. Almost always though at the end of a dry firing session I throw the timer out and simply do what I think I can do. Just like in a stage I have no idea what is good or bad - I just act on the things that I know I can control (basically hitting the target)

On a small stand and shoot stage this is probably reaking havoc on your scores - but in any other stage it is probably only a small disadvantage. With your transition times and splits I'd be willing to bet your are really losing very little in the end compared to the security that is provided by insuring your first shot is solid.

I know your frustration. To this day I struggle with a less than stellar draw. I don't know if you're looking for advice but . . . (you know me - I like to hear myself talk) I'd keep challenging myself dry firing. I'd do some par time work with live fire (to me live fire on things like draws and reloads is very important because to me there is SOMETHING different). And then I would just capitalize on the things you are obviously good at in a match. From what I am hearing a little creativity with masking your draw time doing something else would practically erase time lost. Do that while you improve and you'll cover the platuaeu quickly.

Sounds like you're doing good to me.

JB

[Ron Ankeny]

Thanks for the encouragement guys. Jack, I think you nailed it and I am with you all the way.

Last night I read parts of section 6 in Brian's book. This morning I strapped my gear on and did some dry draws, slow and easy, only a half a dozen or so. At first I didn't even use the timer. Then I used the timer as a start signal, but no par time to end on. I then did a few draws at a little faster but comfortable and relaxed pace, seeing the dot "right on" before I pressed the trigger. I figured this pace would be a gimme A zone hit in a match clear out to 20-25 yards.

I felt totally relaxed and comfortable, not a worry in the world. I did about a half dozen more draws without the timer.  I then set the timer on a par time of 1.5 seconds because I thought that was about the pace. The timer went off, I duplicated the relaxed, easy draw just as I had been doing. I saw the dot rock solid on the target as I pressed the trigger, and I heard the hammer fall. I thought to myself what's with the timer not working? Then the timer went buzzz...good grief.

[Steve Anderson]

That's a great example of relaxation working itself out, and fixing a problem you couldn't solve with sheer effort.

Good stuff.

SA