Cost Saving Choices For Dillon 650 Setup?

[ChrisMcCracken]

I'll post my wish list and welcome any suggestions on things to wait to get later:

From Brian- $786.24 + shipping

Dillon XL 650 in 45acp

"As it should be" upgrade

Spare parts kit

4 pack large primer pickup tubes

45acp Case Guage

D-Terminator Electronic Scale

From MidwayUSA - $381.71 + $40hazmat +shipping

Frankford Arsenal Impact Bullet puller

Hornady One Shot Case Lube 5.5oz Aerosol

RCBS Primer Tray

Hodgdon Clays Smokeless 4lb.

Chrony F1 Chronograph

CCI Large Pistol Primers box of 5000

Frankford Arsenal Electric Calipers

Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die

Redding Competition Seater Die

From Masterblastersbullets.com - $229.90 Edit: shipping included

1700ct 45acp 230gr RN polymer bullets

2000ct 45acp brass, cleaned/deprimed, free shipping

From EGW - $22 + shipping

45acp undersized die

From Berry's - $97.49

Brass Cleaning Kit - Tumbler plus rotary sift

TOTAL: $1560ish

Things I've left out: Casefeeder $194.95

Are these looking like reasonable purchases? I'm still scrimping to come up with about half of the total, so any cost savers short of switching presses or dies would be appreciated. I plugged the component costs into the reloading spreadsheet and figured that I can make 100rds of 45acp for under $12, when Walmart is selling WWB for $24+. That comes out to over a year or more to recoup my investment shooting 200rds a week.

Someone tell me I'm not crazy as I look for something else to sell to feed my shooting habit.

Edited February 15, 2007 by Erucolindon

[Merlin Orr]

Precision Black Bullets are about $160.00 shipped for 2000. And a really nice product.

kamarx@sigecom.net has nice .45 brass for $50.00 shipped.

Save a few bucks here.

Edited February 14, 2007 by Merlin Orr

[dfwmiket]

Well, a couple of things I'd say....... unless you absolutely have to have a digital scale, the Dillon balance beam works fine. Not saving a lot of money, but every little bit counts. Price check your Midway order against PowderValley and see if you might come out better going that way.... but also look at the Franklin Arsenal tumber/media seperator combo deal that Midway has....... it works great, and is very affordable.

2000 pieces of brass should run somewhere around 115...... bullets are a personal choice.

These may help save you a couple bucks here and there......

-Mike

[DrawandDuck]

I tried to save and leave off the case feeder after 30 rounds I was on the phone to Dillon ordering one....Best MONEY SPENT!!

Powder valley has only a $20 hazmat fee. (-20)

Do you know a friend with a Chrono? You should be able to develop a load from the information within the forum and once you determine you make the PF stick with it. (-79). I have never used a bullet puller.

Main point GET THE CASEFEEDER!!!

[ChrisMcCracken]

Precision Black Bullets are about $160.00 shipped for 2000. And a really nice product.

kamarx@sigecom.net has nice .45 brass for $50.00 shipped.

Save a few bucks here.

I'll take a look. I just looked at the bullets on my list and they are coming up cheaper. For 2k at this price it would ship at $141 vs $160 for what you mentioned. I just checked and shipping is included in their price. This is someone duplicate to my other thread, but since we're talking money here... are the precision that much nicer or will the masterblasters hold me? My math may be off, so keep me straight if I'm not seeing some detail.

I'll be sure to check out the brass.

Thanks again Merlin. Have I mentioned that this forum is awesome, yet?

Well, a couple of things I'd say....... unless you absolutely have to have a digital scale, the Dillon balance beam works fine. Not saving a lot of money, but every little bit counts. Price check your Midway order against PowderValley and see if you might come out better going that way.... but also look at the Franklin Arsenal tumber/media seperator combo deal that Midway has....... it works great, and is very affordable.

2000 pieces of brass should run somewhere around 115...... bullets are a personal choice.

These may help save you a couple bucks here and there......

-Mike

Thanks Mike - I'll rethink the digital scale. I'll like end up measuring 10 loads at a time anyway for precision, so the balance beam might save me $100. Is Dillon's the only one you'd recommend or are pretty much all of the main reloading brands' balances good?

I'll be sure to check powdervalley. I'd never heard of them.

The 2k brass I'm getting is 109 shipped.

[zhunter]

I believe I have my .45 loading under .10 per round.

Last I calculated it was .0948

I see some stuff you don't need.

Digital calipers, not needed

Digital scale, NOT needed

Lee undersized die, not needed unless you are using "Glocked" brass

YOU do need the Roller Handle tho, that is a MUST!!

The strong mount is nice too, I am tall, so it is the perfect height for me.

[ChrisMcCracken]

I tried to save and leave off the case feeder after 30 rounds I was on the phone to Dillon ordering one....Best MONEY SPENT!!

Powder valley has only a $20 hazmat fee. (-20)

Do you know a friend with a Chrono? You should be able to develop a load from the information within the forum and once you determine you make the PF stick with it. (-79). I have never used a bullet puller.

Main point GET THE CASEFEEDER!!!

I'll be sure to rethink the casefeeder. I've gone back and forth. It may depend on how much money I can find and how much I'm willing to put on credit. Midway is also only $20 but its 2 fees; one for the primers and one for the powder. I'd be willing to bet powdervalley is the same, as I can't imagine anyone letting them ship the two together.

As far as chronos are concerned, I don't know anyone right now, but I'm looking at joining a private range that will be more tolerant of me reloading and testing loads. I'll likely run into someone there.

Being my first time reloading, I fully expect to need that bullet puller at least a few times, and its one of the least expensive accessories I'm getting.

Ok, I'll get the casefeeder... maybe... bah

[DrawandDuck]

Powdervalleyinc.com....NOPE, only ONE fee and they will ship the powder and primers in SAME box!! Midway ships from 2 different locations for the powder and primers so they have to charge 2 different hazmats.....

Edited February 14, 2007 by DrawandDuck

[ChrisMcCracken]

I believe I have my .45 loading under .10 per round.

Last I calculated it was .0948

I see some stuff you don't need.

Digital calipers, not needed

Digital scale, NOT needed

Lee undersized die, not needed unless you are using "Glocked" brass

YOU do need the Roller Handle tho, that is a MUST!!

The strong mount is nice too, I am tall, so it is the perfect height for me.

I'd be interested in your load details if you don't mind sharing.

Calipers - I'll look at analog or are they not needed all together? I went with an off brand to save considerably compared to Dillon's.

Scale - I'm really rethinking that one.

U die- I'm shooting a glock, so if its not glocked brass, it likely will be soon.

"As it should be" is definitely in.

[Merlin Orr]

Chris

I think the last case of Precisions I bought were actually about $156.00 shipped... So no savings there. When I looked at your post I failed to notice the brass was included in your price shown. I can't say Precision Bullets are any better than MasterBlaster Bullets. I have shot MB bullets and they performed well.

[ChrisMcCracken]

Powdervalleyinc.com....NOPE, only ONE fee and they will ship the powder and primers in SAME box!! Midway ships from 2 different locations for the powder and primers so they have to charge 2 different hazmats.....

Thats awesome, if a little scary, but definitely good to know. Thanks!

[ChuckS]

Isn't gun stuff shopping fun?

The stuff from Brian looks great (I think a balance scale is a PITA but it does work!)

Now the Midway stuff: For powder and primers I would checkout Powder Valley. Their prices are cheaper and they will combine both primers and powder on one hazmat. Your post indicates 2 for MUSA. (Also, CCI primers are about the hardest ones out there. If you are going for a light trigger pull, you may want to use Federal) Dial calipers work just fine.

The Redding dies are great but do you expect to be changing OAL often? Since I assume you are getting the Dillon dies with the press a simple way to set OAL is to seat one bullet, measure the round, calculate the difference from where you want the finished rounds to be and loosen the crimp die in the tool head and change the die depth in the tool head the same amount by measuring the die position in the tool head using those dial calipers.*

I use the EGW U die on .40. I have never really found it necessary in .45 The Lee FCD seems to take care of any fat cases.

If you do the above and what the other folks are pointing out, you may be able to afford the case feeder. You will not be sorry!

Have Fun,

Chuck

*I think that was my best run-on sentence in a long time!

[G-ManBart]

I'll post my wish list and welcome any suggestions on things to wait to get later:

From Brian- $786.24 + shipping

Dillon XL 650 in 45acp

"As it should be" upgrade

Spare parts kit

4 pack large primer pickup tubes

45acp Case Guage

D-Terminator Electronic Scale

From MidwayUSA - $381.71 + $40hazmat +shipping

Frankford Arsenal Impact Bullet puller

Hornady One Shot Case Lube 5.5oz Aerosol

RCBS Primer Tray

Hodgdon Clays Smokeless 4lb.

Chrony F1 Chronograph

CCI Large Pistol Primers box of 5000

Frankford Arsenal Electric Calipers

Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die

Redding Competition Seater Die

From Masterblastersbullets.com - $229.90 + shipping

1700ct 45acp 230gr RN polymer bullets

2000ct 45acp brass, cleaned/deprimed, free shipping

From EGW - $22 + shipping

45acp undersized die

From Berry's - $97.49

Brass Cleaning Kit - Tumbler plus rotary sift

TOTAL: $1560ish

Things I've left out: Casefeeder $194.95

Are these looking like reasonable purchases? I'm still scrimping to come up with about half of the total, so any cost savers short of switching presses or dies would be appreciated. I plugged the component costs into the reloading spreadsheet and figured that I can make 100rds of 45acp for under $12, when Walmart is selling WWB for $24+. That comes out to over a year or more to recoup my investment shooting 200rds a week.

Someone tell me I'm not crazy as I look for something else to sell to feed my shooting habit.

That looks like a pretty nice setup, but there are a few ways I can see to save a few dollars and not compromise quality noticably.

First, I'd step down from the electronic scale to a balance scale. You won't give up anything in accuracy, but you will spend a bit more time if you're weighing lots of charges (which really isn't all that necessary as you're not loading benchrest ammo. Pick a charge, get the measure throwing what you want and spot check a few here and there and you're fine. Figure you can save $75 if you get a $50 balance scale.

I'd also suggest that a bullet puller isn't really necessary. They're handy sometimes, but for the cost of a cheap puller ($18 last time I saw them in the store) you could buy a bunch of cases, powder and bullets....how many saved cases, bullets and powder does it take to make the puller cost-effective? I don't know, but it's a bunch. Save another $18 here.

The electronic calipers are nice, but I would get the standard dial calipers and save the $20+ dollars. They'll be more than accurate enough. Heck, I'm still using dial calipers and I started reloading when I was in my very early teens...never had a problem with them. Save another $20 here.

The Redding competition seater die is great, but it's really more than necessary. I use them for match rifle ammo/sniper rifle practice ammo, and they make a huge difference there. If I were saving a couple of bucks I'd go with a normal seating die and upgrade later if you really, really think you need it. My match guns shoot better than I can hold them with ammo made without a competition seating die so I don't worry about it. Save $40 here.

Is there a specific reason why you want the EGW U-die? I haven't kept close track of what people are doing with .45 match ammo these days but I haven't had a problem with bulged brass etc. With .40 I can understand it because there's so much once-fired brass that has gone through Glocks that won't work in a lot of guns without using the U-die, but I'm not sure it's totally necessary in .45. Save $22 here.

Those changes would save you $175 give or take. That's enough for about 1500 more rounds of ammo you could load at your expected price...more practice is good

[1911user]

Powdervalleyinc.com....NOPE, only ONE fee and they will ship the powder and primers in SAME box!! Midway ships from 2 different locations for the powder and primers so they have to charge 2 different hazmats.....

Thats awesome, if a little scary, but definitely good to know. Thanks!

Powder Valley fills Midway powder orders. Order direct from the source and you'll only have 1 hazmat fee plus the prices should be lower. The midway primers come from somewhere else.

[ChrisMcCracken]

Isn't gun stuff shopping fun?

The stuff from Brian looks great (I think a balance scale is a PITA but it does work!)

Now the Midway stuff: For powder and primers I would checkout Powder Valley. Their prices are cheaper and they will combine both primers and powder on one hazmat. Your post indicates 2 for MUSA. (Also, CCI primers are about the hardest ones out there. If you are going for a light trigger pull, you may want to use Federal) Dial calipers work just fine.

The Redding dies are great but do you expect to be changing OAL often? Since I assume you are getting the Dillon dies with the press a simple way to set OAL is to seat one bullet, measure the round, calculate the difference from where you want the finished rounds to be and loosen the crimp die in the tool head and change the die depth in the tool head the same amount by measuring the die position in the tool head using those dial calipers.*

I use the EGW U die on .40. I have never really found it necessary in .45 The Lee FCD seems to take care of any fat cases.

If you do the above and what the other folks are pointing out, you may be able to afford the case feeder. You will not be sorry!

Have Fun,

Chuck

*I think that was my best run-on sentence in a long time!

Definitely fun... I'll rethink primer choice. Lighter is better. The dial calipers seem the way to go. Powdervalley too. As for dies, I'm not getting them with the press. I saw all the complaints and decided I'd just get the better dies to start with, so thats saving me $50 in dillon dies off the bat. I'll consider a cheaper seating die give that I'm loading .45 not .308. I'm getting the U die because my .45 is a glock, and though I've never noticed bulged brass, I've never really collected my brass to check.

That looks like a pretty nice setup, but there are a few ways I can see to save a few dollars and not compromise quality noticably.

First, I'd step down from the electronic scale to a balance scale. You won't give up anything in accuracy, but you will spend a bit more time if you're weighing lots of charges (which really isn't all that necessary as you're not loading benchrest ammo. Pick a charge, get the measure throwing what you want and spot check a few here and there and you're fine. Figure you can save $75 if you get a $50 balance scale.

I'd also suggest that a bullet puller isn't really necessary. They're handy sometimes, but for the cost of a cheap puller ($18 last time I saw them in the store) you could buy a bunch of cases, powder and bullets....how many saved cases, bullets and powder does it take to make the puller cost-effective? I don't know, but it's a bunch. Save another $18 here.

The electronic calipers are nice, but I would get the standard dial calipers and save the $20+ dollars. They'll be more than accurate enough. Heck, I'm still using dial calipers and I started reloading when I was in my very early teens...never had a problem with them. Save another $20 here.

The Redding competition seater die is great, but it's really more than necessary. I use them for match rifle ammo/sniper rifle practice ammo, and they make a huge difference there. If I were saving a couple of bucks I'd go with a normal seating die and upgrade later if you really, really think you need it. My match guns shoot better than I can hold them with ammo made without a competition seating die so I don't worry about it. Save $40 here.

Is there a specific reason why you want the EGW U-die? I haven't kept close track of what people are doing with .45 match ammo these days but I haven't had a problem with bulged brass etc. With .40 I can understand it because there's so much once-fired brass that has gone through Glocks that won't work in a lot of guns without using the U-die, but I'm not sure it's totally necessary in .45. Save $22 here.

Those changes would save you $175 give or take. That's enough for about 1500 more rounds of ammo you could load at your expected price...more practice is good

Good explanation on the value of a puller. Its only $14, but point made. Competition seater was the most recommended on other threads, and it looks a lot easier to adjust. That being said, this is .45 we're talking about. The U-die may or may not be needed. I'll pay more attention to what my glock spits out next time. Thanks for the help (everyone else too!).

[zhunter]

I changed computers, if someone will post the link to the reloading calculator, I will do my math again!!

[Merlin Orr]

I kinda hate to swim against the current but I would pretty well go with the original list you presented..IF you can swing it. It has been my experience that any time I "saved money" and did not buy the EXACT thing I wanted I never got past the feeling I had a second best/not up to grade "whatever." Buy right and cry once.

My .02

[zhunter]

I kinda hate to swim against the current but I would pretty well go with the original list you presented..IF you can swing it. It has been my experience that any time I "saved money" and did not buy the EXACT thing I wanted I never got past the feeling I had a second best/not up to grade "whatever." Buy right and cry once.

My .02

+1

Suck it up and do it right the first time.

Certain things you HAVE to have!! Casefeeder is one of those!! Why get a 650 if ya don't have a casefeeder????

[ChuckS]

Merlin is right! Just buy the stuff AND get the case feeder. Just be sure to get extra nice flowers for the SO tomorrow!

[ChrisMcCracken]

I kinda hate to swim against the current but I would pretty well go with the original list you presented..IF you can swing it. It has been my experience that any time I "saved money" and did not buy the EXACT thing I wanted I never got past the feeling I had a second best/not up to grade "whatever." Buy right and cry once.

My .02

+1

Suck it up and do it right the first time.

Certain things you HAVE to have!! Casefeeder is one of those!! Why get a 650 if ya don't have a casefeeder????

Both points taken. If nothing else, I'll save $20 or more by going with powder valley. Thats good savings at no cost to my other gizmo wishlist. The others I'll gauge depending on my funds. No one commented on the case gauge, btw. What about just using my barrel outside of my gun?

Edited February 14, 2007 by Erucolindon

[Lee Bell]

If you must have the 650, I recommend most of what you have chosen. Here's my thoughts on a few things:

The spare parts kit has some things you'll want, but also includes things you can replace with less expensive options. If you can buy the parts, outside of the kit, for less, do so.

As I recall, the 650 has 5 stations. The fifth station, located right after the powder drop, is where you put an electronic powder checker. Two of the more common mistakes reloaders make are double charging a case and not charging one at all. The electronic checker will help prevent either.

Forget the case lube, or buy mine. With carbide dies, you won't need it for .45, .40, .357, 9mm, or 10mm. It did make resizing .44 magnums a bit easier, but was unnecssary for anything else.

A chronograph is a nice thing to have, but you can probably put it off until later. My Pro Chrono Digital, from Midway, is inexpensive and works well.

In primers and bullets, think bulk. Show prices a bit. When I bought my last bunch of primers, Powder Valley, Inc. was the cheapest source. 5,000 is just a start on what you'll use the first year. The same goes for bullets. Take a look at what Precision Bullets have to offer. They also have a good reputation and are less expensive than anything I've used to do the same job. When comparing prices, notice that Precision pays shipping. Not everyone does.

Digital calipers are nice. Buy them at Harbor Freight.

I know nothing about the Lee dies, good, bad or indifferent, or the undersize sizing dies. My Dillon carbide dies do everything I need in all the calibers I reload, including cases previously fired out of Glocks.

I don't know anything about the cleaning kit from Berry's. Mine is from Dillon. If it's reliable and durable, it's good. No self respecting reloader would load dull, ugly bullets . . . well, I wouldn't. Rather than getting the case lube, which I dicussed above, get some Dillon Rapid Polish. It really does a nice job on heavily tarnished brass. Now that I've said that, others will come along and tell you about their home brew polich additives. Some, maybe all, probably have something that works. Listen to them.

Without the case feeder, about the only functional difference between the 650 and the 550 is the number of holes in the head and the automatic indexing. For the price difference, I can push the plate to the next station with my thumb just before I place the next bullet on top of the case.

I don't know how crazy you look, but you're crazy for sure. You're just our kind of crazy. I'm sorry to tell you, it gets worse before it gets better.

Lee

[zhunter]

My Reloading costs

Powder 8 lb.s @ $112.95

Powder charge 4.6

CCI #300 Primer 5000 @ 92.50

Cases 1000 @$20.00 This varies as I pick up my brass when practicing

Zero .45 230 grain Bullets 2000 @ $164.00 You can save money with less expensive bullets!!!!

This equates to $0.1297 per round for .45

My costs have gone up, I switched powder, and I am getting ready to switch primers too.

Damn, this got expensive, maybe I should cut back, NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

[Merlin Orr]

I don't know how crazy you look, but you're crazy for sure. You're just our kind of crazy. I'm sorry to tell you, it gets worse before it gets better.

Lee

ALL Good information but the above goes beyond..LOL! Excellent!

[zhunter]

I don't know how crazy you look, but you're crazy for sure. You're just our kind of crazy. I'm sorry to tell you, it gets worse before it gets better.

Lee

ALL Good information but the above goes beyond..LOL! Excellent!

True!!!

[DrawandDuck]

Then once you do get everything you need THROW AWAY THE CALCULATOR!! If you start adding up the cost, well...SEE Z's Post Above!! Just plain upsetting

Edited February 14, 2007 by DrawandDuck