TDean Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 http://www.teamcroc.com/banzai.htm Anyone shot this match before? I'm thinking 'bout making the drive (7hrs) Sounds fun! <font face="Stencil" size="5" color="#FF0000">Crazy Croc Banzai Ballistic 2002<br> June 22-23, 2002<br> (Edited by TDean at 11:34 pm on June 8, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianH Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 Never shot the match, but I've known the players for about 13 years.....they're a good crowd; it should be fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 Shot it for the first time last year. Awesomely fun, great stages. They did a good job of making 50 round stages interesting and didn't let them become total hosers. The surprise jungle run stage alone was worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted June 10, 2002 Author Share Posted June 10, 2002 The names of the shooters who attend is eye-opening..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 How's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted June 10, 2002 Author Share Posted June 10, 2002 With names like Ralph Arredondo, Beven Grams and Erik Warren, it's gotta be a good match! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 Team GE cleaned up last year. But this year all those hardcovered partials in the course previews might slow down those southern California hosers enough to give the rest of us a chance. I don't know how I'm gonna practice for that Texas star... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 I totaly agree with Eric, they did a great job of setting up 50 round stages and not having you standing in one place shooting 25. I really don't think of the match as a hoser, just high round count with lots of props and movement and not just a bunch of holes in walls. I like the tight shots Eric, if they want to bring in more no shoots and hard cover, that's fine. Bring back the trigger control, I'm always saying! Anyway, I am sorry to say that William Paolino and I will not be able to attend the Crazy Croc this year. We just got back from Area 4, (Shreveport, LA) and after driving 3200 miles round trip, doing another 2000 miles is too much for me, just two weeks later. So, the door is wide open Eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave pasos Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 you should give a special trophy for high L10 at this match! DAMM 61 rounds on one stage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 That's too bad, we'll miss you guys. You guys were nuts to drive to Area 4. You ever hear of air travel? I'm flying to Portland and I live 8 hours closer than you guys. They had only one total hoser stage last year, which William won, and that one with the bridge was half a hoser. My glee upon seeing this year's collection of partial targets had more to do with William than you. I don't care about the foo-foo gun division. I can't even keep in William's draft on hoser stages, but I think I can take him on stages which require sight pictures and trigger control. TDean, like he said, the door is wide open for the Limited overall. You need to show everybody Glock Perfection in action. And you can steal Jerry the Geek's 10mm brass when he's not looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted June 12, 2002 Author Share Posted June 12, 2002 Noted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted June 24, 2002 Author Share Posted June 24, 2002 Well that was "interesting". Erik, I was going to find you to say hello after the match....... ...but I was so frustrated on Sunday after shooting "TANK", I left before even shooting the last stage. Looks as if you did pretty well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Yeah I couldn't find you either. What was your problem with the Tank stage? Besides the stupid Comstock re-engagement and poor course description and the questionable ROing I heard about. I hope you didn't just fire 8 shots into the dirt from the low port, that was a losing strategy. I pulled out an extra large can of Grade A whoop-ass on the Tank stage and damn near beat everybody until Chuck Anderson beat me with an Open gun. We all pretty much agreed the stages weren't as good as last year. Too much up close hosing, too many supposedly-activated supposedly-moving targets, some traps and borderline-unsafe weirdness. And I'm not even going to mention the officiating and administration. I just consider myself damn lucky to get my $100 arbitration fee back. I was shooting Sunday under the threat of an Unsportsmanlike DQ. Oh yeah, how'd I do... beats me, there was no real Limited match, we were scored with everybody else. Got a second M trophy, not sure if I deserve it. Thirteenth overall, fourth Limited in the list, but we all would have won stages and received more and less points with USPSA division match scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted June 24, 2002 Author Share Posted June 24, 2002 Wheeww! I'm glad it wasn't just me...... My problems: They changed the design of Stage 3 on day-2 and granted anyone "who wanted" a reshoot, a re-shoot. WHAT!"!??? (For the edification of those who weren't there, there were two movers activated by poppers. One mover traveled about 20ft to the right via a wheeled cart, the other traveled 20ft to the left on a cable system. Half the squads shot it this way, the others didn't) This stage should have been a mandatory re-shoot or tossed! Stage 4: The squad in front of us were shooting through the wooden trees and scoring the hits. As far as I've been told, "props" are hard cover. We had to tape 20 holes before we started the stage. Stage 8 "TANK": I recieved 80 (8 mikes) penalty points for not engaging "those" targets with 4 rds each. When I asked for written description of this no-one could provide the info. NOWHERE on the course description did it say to engage ANY targets with 4rds each! The place they did refer me to was the score sheet on the clipboard where "4" was written next to the scoring box. I said "..I don't shoot a course by the score sheet, I go by the stage description.." I wasn't even trying to make a point, I seriously didn't know I had to engage those with 4 rds. Unless someone would've pulled me aside, or our squad actaully did a thourough walkthrough, I never would have known until I shot it and recieved the mikes. I guess I missed the "insider information"? I wasn't having fun at this point, I left without finishing the match. I felt as if I needed to hire a lawyer to accompany me on some of those stages. Again, no fun, I'm not a politician. (Does the USPSA website have a list of Range Lawyers for hire) 1000 miles driven, $60 in gas, $150 in hotel costs, $70 for the match and T-shirt for what? They can take that match and shove it! Maybe this is what I should expect from now on at "unsanctioned" IPSC matches? I should'a stayed home and straightened my stereo wires..... After leaving the match, (and calming down) the fun started. I went up through Vancouver and East on 14 visiting the Bonneville Dam to count fish then all the winerys along the river then up into Yakima. I sampled some and bought various bottles of their "best" for my wife. So the trip wasn't a total loss..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Oh man you got screwed. Tom, I am very sorry I talked you into going, but honestly, last year was very different. I don't know if it had anything to do with Tom Chambers parting ways with the club or what. I could write a book about what was wrong with the match. The tank was our second stage. Mass confusion, as the posted course description said nothing about scored hits on targets. There was a description the RO had and he was changing it before we shot. We kind of worked it out that four targets scored 4 rounds each, all others 2 rounds, and 8 shots must be fired through the low port. They even put a no-shoot on the ground to discourage people just yanking off 8 unaimed rounds through the low port. I heard one guy got a reshoot after he put 1 through the wall and 7 through the port. I also noticed all the untaped bullet holes in the trees on the winter stage. Some taped, some not. No mention of activation or movers in the course description until I brought it up, fearful of the unsportsmanlike threat. RO visited MD or RM, came back and said everybody else shot it this way, and changed the course description. On the landing craft stage, basically half the activated stuff broke. They put the ramp down, they made the roller static, and they made the cable mover static. Still, we had reshoots when the other stuff didn't activate. On Saturday I shot the upper A/B of the swinger, visible around the left of the barrel, as only D zone was visible around the right side. On Sunday's reshoot, the upper A/B, all the top C zone, and some of the main A zone was visible around the left, and only some D on the right side of the barrel. Why did they obscure it with the barrel if we can't shoot it anyway? Oh yeah and the camo net softcover support had been repaired such that it drooped and a reinforcement stick was placed right over the A zone of a target. I missed that target Saturday, I think because the stick deflected it. There were at least two different course descriptions on every stage. One of them changed from time to time as the range officers wrote on them. On stage 3, the RO Notes, which were not read to my squad, specified procedural penalties for something that was not present in the course procedure. We shot the Suribachi stage first. It said targets must be engaged through ports and/or behind fault lines. The entire first array was not visible through any port nor from behind any fault line. They went and put half a fault line down. The bridge-over-water stage also specified engagement from behind fault lines, but there was none for the first array on the left. RO told me to use the water (tarp). The front of it? The back of it? Not a legal fault line anyway. The right-most array was a 180 trap. The plank stage had 180 traps. I saw two people break the 180 reloading before the third paper array. One went about 220 and swept our waiting squad with his muzzle. No problems with the course description but the drop turner kept failing our squad. Para cord in front of a popper?! Splatter cut city. I really liked how the MD and/or RM were part of the arbitration committee. I mean, I know the MD has the power to stack the deck, but damn... My absolute favorite match highlight was getting told by the RM, "You can't do that, that's gaming it" and "Everybody else shot it that way." Bring me the head of the Range Master! (Edited by Erik Warren at 2:56 pm on June 24, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted June 24, 2002 Author Share Posted June 24, 2002 Oh man!...... This is almost hilarious! Did you see the para-cord attached to the handle of the machine-gun Sat morning? By the time the first squad started shooting, the cord was gone and the ramp was in the down position. Who knows what happened there but that thing didn't last 2 shooters!! Even though I didn't hang out for the "great prize giveaway" (was the stuff good?), I will walk away from the Croc with many gimmicks in the form of memories. The organizing staff should take stage design more seriously. The folks who traveled as far as Wyoming, Montana, Idaho and North Carolina deserve it. It was definately a "croc". Did you see Yong shoot? He's a freaking Robot! ....and Ken, he's a good shooter too. What did he get 17th at Lim Nats last year? Almost top 16...sweeeet! Well, anyway...I'll meet you at Bend I'm sure Erik. Take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 25, 2002 Share Posted June 25, 2002 I think they just lost a great deal of the people who travel a good distance to their match. Last year ran so smoothly, too. I can forgive them for the props; they've probably learned their lesson and won't get so ambitious again. When they gave away prizes, the big prize was an Arredondo holster. First shooter they called wasn't present. Next number was #13, me. Bruce Gary made me an offer right on the spot and I got back my entry fee. Or half-way to the arbitration fee of the next match, depending on how you look at it. Never saw any of the front runners shoot besides Ray W. on my squad. They were consistently faster than me. Bring 'em on at the Nationals, where accuracy counts, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted June 25, 2002 Author Share Posted June 25, 2002 "...Shut your pie hole and go get me an arbitration form! ..." LOL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 25, 2002 Share Posted June 25, 2002 Yeah I want that on a Team Ancient shirt. Or, "Bring me the head of the Range Master!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted June 25, 2002 Share Posted June 25, 2002 TDean said: NOWHERE on the course description did it say to engage ANY targets with 4rds each! The place they did refer me to was the score sheet on the clipboard where "4" was written next to the scoring box. I said "..I don't shoot a course by the score sheet, I go by the stage description.." ---------- Hey - just be happy they HAD a stage description. One of the little tricks they pull down here is to mumble mumble mumble through the walkthrough, leave out some very pertinent information, then hide the stage description. Big Fun! Sorry you had a lousy time. That's some pretty ridiculous crap to put up with. E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted June 25, 2002 Author Share Posted June 25, 2002 It's al yin'n yang, right? I mean, if we didn't have poor course design, we wouldn't have anything to compare a great course design to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 25, 2002 Share Posted June 25, 2002 EricW, they had a course description. In fact, they had two or three different ones for each stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowter Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Does anyone know where the match results are. The only thing that I can find is this- http://www.teamcroc.com/Scores/Banzai02.htm. I can't find anything for the individual shooting categories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 That's it; that's the way they do things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowter Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 Aw poop. A person could take the scores that they have right now and build the individual categories but I don't know if I want to spend the time to do so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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