Recoil Springs

[Lee Bell]

As mentioned in other threads, I have a Colt Delta Elite 10mm. I plan to do three things with the same gun:

1. Use it as a hog defense gun in the Everglades. Hogs are nasty when angry and much of the Everglades lacks trees I can climb until the hog gets tired of waiting for me to come back down. For this application, I'll use 180 grain JHP bullets at something like 1,200 fps.

2. For now, as a 10mm action shooting gun, probably in Limited 10. I'll use 180 grain JHPs at velocites necessary to make major, around 1,000 fps.

3. Later, as a .40 caliber action shooting gun, probably in Limited 10. I'm going to have the pistol fitted with a .40 caliber barrel. I'll use 180 grain JHPs at velocities necessary to make major, still around 1,000 fps.

One more item of background. According to Wolff, the stock double recoil spring setup for the Colt Delta Elite is rated at 23 lbs. I recently added a full length guide rod and installed a Wolff 23 lb recoil spring. I also installed the firing pin spring the provided with the recoil spring (a good idea in my opinion). Ever since, it's been a pure bitch to jack the slide. It's so hard to move that I almost can't do it with my left hand and don't have an easy time of it with my right.

OK, now for my question. I know I'll have to do some trial and error on this, but I want to start with recoil springs that are reasonably close to correct for the rounds I'll use with them. My theory is that recoil spring strength should be most affected by muzzle energy, whether represented as foot pounds energy or as a power factor. If I'm correct, the 16 lb spring that works in my Colt Gold Cup .45 with a 185 grain JHP at about 995 fps, should also work in my Delta Elite with 180 grain JHPs at around 1,000 fps.

Am I on the right track?

Lee

[uscbigdawg]

It's not a bad place to start. It comes down to function first and feel second. Get the load you want worked up first, letting accuracy and reliability (when you adjust the OAL) be the guide there. Once you have a load that is as accurate as you want and runs in the gun perfectly, THEN worry about spring rates.

For a limited gun, I usually bring 4-5 different weights with 15# being the highest. It's just my thing. I like lightly sprung, fast cycling and FLAT cycling guns. My current limited gun runs a 12# spring, shooting a 180gr. MGB-FMJ with N320 at like a 168 PF loaded to an OAL of 1.200".

Shoot the gun for a bit. Feel it out, feel the cycling, make sure you're not beatin' the piss out of the gun and go with what functions and feels right.

Rich

[Bear1142]

Lee,

Spring rates are a very subjective thing. They are one of the last things you do to help "tune" a gun to your shooting preferences. Most people running 40's in Limited or Lim 10 are using somewhere between and 11lb. and a 14lb. spring. Springs are relatively cheap, so buy one of each and swap them around to see which one you like. Then go buy another one or two. Keep one in your range bag for a replacement and keep another one around the house.

Regarding the hog loads, I'm a big 10mm fan and I use mine in a very similar way to you. I run my 180's at around 1,300 fps with a 20lb. spring, but I only use a single spring with a shock buff, not the double spring setup. Once again, personal preference. If you are having trouble with the stiff spring, try locking the slide back first, then insert the magazine and use the slide stop to load the pistol. It may be a little easier to get that first round in the chamber.

With respect to springs, I only use ISMI, but take that with a grain of salt, as I have an affiliation with them. (Although if they weren't the best out there, I wouldn't be using them.)

Erik

Edited January 3, 2007 by Bear1142

[Lee Bell]

Lee, Spring rates are a very subjective thing. They are one of the last things you do to help "tune" a gun to your shooting preferences. Most people running 40's in Limited or Lim 10 are using somewhere between and 11lb. and a 14lb. spring. Springs are relatively cheap, so buy one of each and swap them around to see which one you like. Then go buy another one or two. Keep one in your range bag for a replacement and keep another one around the house.

Understood relative to "one of the last things," but that's where I am with the 10mm load. I know what loads I'm going to shoot in 10mm, more or less. I need to do something different for the hotter loads. I'm reasonably sure that 23 lb spring, which is what I'm told was the original rating from Colt, is higher than what my Delta Elite came with and more than I need even for a 1,300 fps 180 grain bullet, but I could be wrong. Your use of a 20 lb spring at least suggests a starting point. On the other hand, Delta Elites have a reputation for destroying themselves, something I'd rather avoid. Most who have one are not anxious to get rid of it.

I'm using something in the 12 lb range in my bullseye .45 at a power factor somewhere around 130. I'm shooting a slightly hotter round than some to account for the fact that my optics are mounted on the slide. A bit more weight to move suggests a bit more power to move it and to return it. I use a buffer in all my 1911 pistols.

Regarding the hog loads, I'm a big 10mm fan and I use mine in a very similar way to you. I run my 180's at around 1,300 fps with a 20lb. spring, but I only use a single spring with a shock buff, not the double spring setup. Once again, personal preference. If you are having trouble with the stiff spring, try locking the slide back first, then insert the magazine and use the slide stop to load the pistol. It may be a little easier to get that first round in the chamber.

Good information, thanks. As for locking the slide back to load, that's exactly what I'm doing now. It gets around the problem, but does not resolve it. Until I get the gun fitted and tuned for a .40 barrel, I figure a malfunction of any kind during a match pretty much ends my chances in the match. There's no way I'm going to clear the gun quickly.

With respect to springs, I only use ISMI, but take that with a grain of salt, as I have an affiliation with them. (Although if they weren't the best out there, I wouldn't be using them.)

An honest statement. Thanks. I'll take a look at the ISMI line. Wolff was the first and probably the most often spring company recommended. I don't imagine I'm going to have problems, but if I do, I now have someone else to consider.

It's not a bad place to start. It comes down to function first and feel second. Get the load you want worked up first, letting accuracy and reliability (when you adjust the OAL) be the guide there. Once you have a load that is as accurate as you want and runs in the gun perfectly, THEN worry about spring rates.

For a limited gun, I usually bring 4-5 different weights with 15# being the highest. It's just my thing. I like lightly sprung, fast cycling and FLAT cycling guns. My current limited gun runs a 12# spring, shooting a 180gr. MGB-FMJ with N320 at like a 168 PF loaded to an OAL of 1.200".

Shoot the gun for a bit. Feel it out, feel the cycling, make sure you're not beatin' the piss out of the gun and go with what functions and feels right.

Rich

Thanks.

Lee

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: The recoil spring that comes with the Kimber Eclipse 10mm is 18 pounds. On your hog loads that would be the minimum I would try. I would also use a shock buff to soften the recoil. Hope this helps. Thanks Eric

[Lee Bell]

Hello: The recoil spring that comes with the Kimber Eclipse 10mm is 18 pounds. On your hog loads that would be the minimum I would try. I would also use a shock buff to soften the recoil. Hope this helps. Thanks Eric

Thanks Eric. Every piece of information helps. I do use shock buffers.

Lee

[JFD]

I like a 14 lb spring for major .45 loads in my SSs. I haven't seen a big difference dropping to lower weights. The max I would use is 16 lbs if I was running something like a 185 PF.

For major .40 loads in the 170 PF range I use a 12 lb spring in my Para. 13 lb is also fine, but I can tell the difference when shooting a 14 lb spring (and don't like it).

I run shok-buffs in all my 1911s.

[Anthony Lombardo]

For a warm 10mm load you will need a minimum of 20# recoil spring and I also suggest a 23# hammer spring and stiff mag springs. 10mm is a finicky cartridge for a variety of reasons mostly related to OAL and harder to make 100%reliable than a .40 in my experience. Stick to 8rd mags in 10mm and you will be better served than trying use a 9rder.

Once you get over 210 power factor in a 1911 you have to start making some changes to ensure reliabilty. The original 1911 had a 16# recoil spring, 23# hammer spring and 7rd mags with stiff springs to manage a harball PF of approx 190. Increase that by 25% and you will need to adjust all of your springs accordingly.

Edited January 3, 2007 by Anthony Lombardo

[Harmon]

for limited loads, ive got a 13.0 pounder in my top end...its awaiting a frame to complete the limited gun.

i might adjust up or down to make it function or shoot better.

I would run a shock buff and a 18 pound spring in the 10mm though...especially with 180+ pf ammo.

harmon

[Lee Bell]

For a warm 10mm load you will need a minimum of 20# recoil spring and I also suggest a 23# hammer spring and stiff mag springs. 10mm is a finicky cartridge for a variety of reasons mostly related to OAL and harder to make 100%reliable than a .40 in my experience. Stick to 8rd mags in 10mm and you will be better served than trying use a 9rder.

Once you get over 210 power factor in a 1911 you have to start making some changes to ensure reliabilty. The original 1911 had a 16# recoil spring, 23# hammer spring and 7rd mags with stiff springs to manage a harball PF of approx 190. Increase that by 25% and you will need to adjust all of your springs accordingly.

Thanks. As of now, that's pretty much what I plan to do. I'm running a shock buffer with the 23 lb spring that's in the gun now. I'm probably going to buy a 20, 18 and a 16 lb spring for it. My stock Gold Cup runs a 16 lb spring and I'm planning on fitting a .40 barrel and bushing to the Delta Elite with a .40 barrel and bushing. The 18 lb spring may be just what I want for that, or for some intermediate load I do for the 10mm rounds. Regardless, they're cheap enough that I can afford to get it wrong once or twice without worring about the money. The stress of not having the gun right, on the other hand, is significant. It's annoying the hell out of me, particularly since my Gold Cup is in the shop.

I sent Wolff a message asking pretty much the same questions I asked here and, as usual, they told me to call. I'll call tomorrow. I think I/we are on the right track. We'll see if they change my mind.

Lee

[Bear1142]

Lee,

Are you trying to use one spring for everything?

Erik

[uscbigdawg]

Lee,

Are you trying to use one spring for everything?

Erik

Exactly what I was thinking. Lee, if you are, you definitely don't want to do that. Have one spring setup for your .40 competition loads and another for your 10mm hog loads.

Rich