rpmwfo Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 (edited) I am thinking of machining the slide on my Para to give it a different look. I planned on ball cuts to flute the top of the slide and a front panel cut. I like the look of the guns that have had a front panel cut (Hipower style). Something similar to this. My question is what is the max depth of cut before there is a problem? It's a bushing gun, so I would imagine the maximum depth of cut would be .020 -.025" before it gets a little thin for the bushing groove. Is this a safe assumption? I wouldn't imagine the ball cuts could pose a problem- I planned to stop the cuts just before the lugs. I am looking at .060 depth of cut. I have done some other machine work, but never a 1911 slide. Does the Yavapi jig make that much difference when doing machine work on a slide? I know I could send it off to one of the Pro's to get this done, but I figured this is an experiment to see what it will turn out like. I might learn something along the way as well. I plan on fitting a new top end to this gun anyway, so I figured I could learn from experimenting on the old slide. Edited December 28, 2006 by rpmwfo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianH Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 I think you're fine, both times. A couple of times I've ground the rear serrations off an STI slide (just surface-ground the whole flat) and I think they were .015" or so deep...still plenty of metal left. If your still worried see if you can find a ball bearing small enough to drop into the bushing groove, then mic across it and do the math. Sometimes a little extra checking will make you feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Hello: I would suggest you buy new carbide cutters before you start. They will make the job alot easier and give a nicer finish. I buy mine from Enco when they have a sale (which is all the time) and get the 4 flute cutters. For what you are doing, the mill vice will work just fine. The fixture is nice to have but is not perfectly square. Hope this helps. Thanks Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Go for it. I haven't used the Yavapai jig so I can't comment on it. A couple notes though: Unless you make a nest or machine soft jaws for the slide it will be very hard if not impossible to support the dustcover end of the slide. The slide is a lot more flexible than you would guess. Low and slow or it will start talking to you. The slide is very easy to collapse or bend in the vise/clamps. The line between holding it just enough and too hard is a very fine line. The top of the slide and the rails are not parallel, keep that in mind when setting up. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 I've always liked those front panel cuts too. While not likely accurate in the least, I just worked some modeling clay into the bushing groove on a new STI Commander Slide. It roughly measured 0.065 It sure looks deeper than that, so I'll likely need to go back and check that again (the clay isn't a great measure, and I did it rather quickly). The slide's side wall in that area is just under 0.115. Wow...not a whole lot of room there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpmwfo Posted December 28, 2006 Author Share Posted December 28, 2006 (edited) Thanks to everyone so far for all the help. Hsmith- I am going to have to spend some time looking at the setup and making sure everything is going to work out. I am surprised the slide is as flexible as you say it is. AC6Racer- already got the cutters. I can see you have an Enco habit like I do.... BrianH- The ball bearing idea is great. We have done similar measurements at work this way. Guess I shut off the brain while on vacation. Flex- I did the clay trick, but didn't think I got an accurate number. I was coming up with something in the neighborhood of .060-.065" as well. Found a ballbearing- By my measurements, the wall thickness at the thinnest point is .050". If I make a .025" panel cut, that is going to leave .025" wall thickness in one small area. Is that enough wall thickness for durability? I decided to model the slide to see what the cuts would look like. Here is what I am thinking of doing. How does it look? Now if I can only replicate it in real steel: Bare Slide: With sights: Thin Section: Edited December 28, 2006 by rpmwfo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Precision Designs Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Funny thing is that this "Browning Hi-Power" look is something I have been using for many of my Custom carry guns, both for aesthetics and lightening reasons. I like it. Usually I have my slides machined by the manufacturer without the bushing cut in them. But often-times, especially when the customer supplies the slide, then I have to deal with it by "TIG welding" it close, or otherwise measuring to see how much I can go. Normally welding is required if you indeed expect to make a substantial cut worthy of the effort for true "hi-power" results. By the way I find that using a "surface grinder" in a magnetic table gives me the fastest, easiest and most accurate results for this treatment. As for "ball-end" cuts? The possibilities are endless indeed, and vary from tastefull and purposeful to gawdy and dangerous. Look and measure twice before you cut, and then look and check overall to see that design integrity is not compromised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Venry, So it wouldn't really be a good idea to do the panel cuts with a bushing barrel I take it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpmwfo Posted December 29, 2006 Author Share Posted December 29, 2006 Venry,So it wouldn't really be a good idea to do the panel cuts with a bushing barrel I take it ? Venry's post got me thinking the same thing, but from cruising the net, I saw that Pistol Dynamics(linked in 1st post) and CT Brian are both doing bushing guns with the front panel cuts. The bushing lug at assembly is retained in a section of the groove with a thicker wall section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Precision Designs Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Flex- From the cosmetic point of view, a front panel cut "a la Browning HP" is possible, but it will not be as deep and "weight removing" when a bushing cut exists in the slide. Browning HP's do not have bushing "lock" cuts. Yes, some shops offer "minor" depth front panel "relieving/cuts", including my shop. But you must keep in sight the main purpose/reason for your cuts and realize their benefits, whether they be pure cosmetics or weight reducing. Personally I love the feel and balance of a well thought out "Officer's Model" framed single stack .45ACP with a Commander lenght slide/bull barrel with the "Hi-Power" panel cuts, way back in the slide, with barely .040 (thousandths) left between the barrel and slide. Finish that with a a tri-sided top and rear panels full reliefs, and you got a great looking light weight portable "pea shooter". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 rpmwfo, Are you still looking at doing this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpmwfo Posted February 16, 2007 Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 rpmwfo,Are you still looking at doing this ? Flex, Yeah I am still planning on doing this. Probably won't get a chance to work on it until late spring. I am gone with work for the next several months. I'll try to post up some pics once it is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Cool. - C.T. Brain says, " Every slide will differ. You can only measure the bushing cut vs the slide width on that particular slide, then determine if there is enough metal for the cut. I usually don't do a HP cut deeper than .020." - I think, from your graphic, that you are taking the panel cut back too far. For my tastes, anyways. Looks good to me going back just to the stirrup...which meets the dustcover. Personally I love the feel and balance of a well thought out "Officer's Model" framed single stack .45ACP with a Commander lenght slide/bull barrel with the "Hi-Power" panel cuts, way back in the slide, with barely .040 (thousandths) left between the barrel and slide. Finish that with a a tri-sided top and rear panels full reliefs, and you got a great looking light weight portable "pea shooter". Venry, got any pics of one done like that? I might be stuck on the back end...as I have an STI commander slide that has the thick serration...angled. What I have to work with and what I have in my head don't jive...all pics/idea appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Flex, have you visualized taking one or two of the 'lands' off the rear serrations making a land with a wider space then another land? I think it looks nice, and it is really simple to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 These are pics at my first attempt at machining. I used a Springer 9mm slide and wanted to remove the front cocking serrations and High Power panel cut it. I also flat topped the slide. You can see in the close up pic of the right side where I went too deep with my panel cut and got into the bushing groove slightly. The final depth of the panel cut was .044". I squared it off for aesthetics. The slide is SS so I did not try to weld it and instead left it. No one ever notices it. The frame is an STI 2011 with the Springfield 9mm slide and a Nowlin 9mm bushing barrel. I thought I measured correctly but still ended up with a very small pinhole where the square is. I should have stayed at .040". This gun is now nearing 3500 rounds since I finished it about four months ago. It runs and shoots like a champ......it just has a funny looking square hole that boogered up my HP panel cuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpmwfo Posted February 18, 2007 Author Share Posted February 18, 2007 I was planning to make the cut flush with the dust cover. I measured it up when I modeled the slide. After measuring the bushing groove depth, I would agree with the .020 depth max for the HP cut. As for the rear serrations, I would probably do something similar to what HSMITH recommended. The other look I have seen for the STI serrations is somethig similar to what was done here. It would be easy enough to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 measure everything twice, cut once. Some of the bushing cuts are shallow some are over deep. .020 would be my max also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Flex, have you visualized taking one or two of the 'lands' off the rear serrations making a land with a wider space then another land? I think it looks nice, and it is really simple to do. I'll have to grab a pic and do some 'photoshopping'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 I wonder if that panel cut would not look better on a full profile slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 (edited) Flex, the gun I recently posted pics of in the Gallery has this sort of rear serrations, the slide was bald before I cut it but the basic look is the same. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...c=45038&hl= [edit to add link] Edited February 19, 2007 by Flexmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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