DougCarden Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 I just got off the phone with S&W. I sent in my beat up 625, at least 40K on the gun. The frame hole for the ejector rod is hogged out and needs a bushing. The cylinder stop slots on the cylinder peened, but they stopped peening a long time ago and when I installed a new MIM stop they all lock up tight, like they are supposed to. I got a call today from them. My frame and cylinder are worn, they can't .."read"... won't do anything for the gun, but they will sell me a new gun....I spoke to the gunsmith. He says the cylinder is shot. I asked him if it was due to the peening of the notches. He says yes. When I told him I put a new MIM stop in it and it locked up fine he then said that the cylinder was fine............ I then explained that I was told by gunsmiths that specialize in Revolver work, including guild gunsmiths......to send the gun to the factory to fix the hole and put a bushing in it, no big deal. So the conversation goes along and basically ends up with that they dont do the bushing and never have since this guy has been there, and of course he has been there forever. This is the Performance center, folks I then indicated that I have a safe full of custom Revos and that numerous gunsmiths told me to send it in to get it fixed. I am then told that I could get a aftermarket person to put the bushing in. I, of course, understand that guns wear out, and am willing to spend the money to fix the gun, as I have been led to believe that it can be fixed. It is frustrating to be treated like an idiot, and then listen to them backpedal and basically tell you that it can be done when they find out you know better. So my question is this? Who can do this. Can it be done? I am calling TK Custom, Pinnacle, and Clark Custom today. I will also check with Randy Lee and others. What say you Experienced Revoleers? If it can't be done then I will buy a new gun and be done with it, but I wan't to know my options first...... Thanks for your help as always..... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10mmdave Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Ah yes .... the lovely folks of S&W Another 'smith might be SDM in Ohio, http://www.sdmfabricating.com don't know if Scott is still working on revo's but he's done some nice stuff in the past. He has his own welding stuff so if he needs to do some of that the gun won't have to be sent out. Can't see why this is a big deal with S&W, but they are in the business of selling guns. I can see in my mind's eye how I'd go about it, but that's another story. Good luck and see you before ya know it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted November 15, 2006 Author Share Posted November 15, 2006 ....well I just found out how simple it is to fix this........ It involves a Tig welder, a fixture to drill the pilot hole again, and a small file........ (insert head pounding against wall icon here......) I answered my own question, and my intention is not to bash S&W, as they have the best thing going with Revos today, but man is this frustrating....... Oh well, maybe I will get a helluva deal on a new gun from them...... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 I think I've spent time on the phone with the same guy; been there 30+ years seen/done it all, (and will waste your time explaining that to you) but has no idea what your talking about: that your gun isn't right or needs to be fixed. You might as well be talking to the geezer at your home-town Chevy dealership about doing a rebuild on a car you've been racing. If it starts and runs he won't understand what you're going on about. If it won't start or run he'll tell you you voided the warranty by racing it and you'll have to take it somewhere else. It probably works with most customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 I've been telling people for years that you never get anywhere sending stuff back to S&W. So much of the work is now done by machine these days, there's just about nobody left there who knows how the stuff is supposed to fit together. As much as I hate to recommend them, Cylinder & Slide does list the center pin hole bushing installation on their website. Of course, I've been down that road in the long distant past, and now just the sight of anyone with a handle-bar mustache gets me pissed. Doug, sounds like you found somebody who can fix it for you. Go for it. The old 25-2 that Sam shoots (that I purchased well-used in '87) has a pretty wobbly, egged-out center-pin to frame fit, and due to the off-center primer hits that problem tends to cause, I haven't been able to lighten up the action as much as I would like. But it still works fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 What about Frank Glenn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasond Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 i'll take the whole problem off your hands for twenty bucks! i'm a machinist and i can't think of how to get a new hole drilled without taking the barrel off. I think TIGing it over would be fine, and a hard bushing would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry V Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I've been telling people for years that you never get anywhere sending stuff back to S&W. So much of the work is now done by machine these days, there's just about nobody left there who knows how the stuff is supposed to fit together. Carmoney why do you write shit like this....whats your bad experience ??? The custom work I've had done on my revolvers in the Charge area as they call it, has been excellent and yes they do know what they are doing. Now the ones who are doing the warranty work......well, that's a bit more hit & miss Be careful when you make such a blanket statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Sniper Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I can back Carmoney on this with first hand experience...My father in law had a terrible time with the Smith and Wesson Custom Shop... His gun went in for a a new PC barrel and cylinder, trigger job, hammer bob, and cylinder chamfer. The cases rubbed on the recoil shield. Trigger was fair,not a "Performance Center" feel at all. They must have bobbed the hammer with a hack saw (you could see the cut marks on the hammer. Not polished at all)...It was terrible. The gun went back THREE times to be corrected in order to fire consistanly. It finally came back and I was the one to shoot it for the first time at a match...It only lasted about 85 rounds before the extractor rod backed out and locked the gun up...You would think that a gun thats been back so many times with problems would have been gone over with a fine toothed comb before going back to the customer...After this experience and reading the other post on here, I did not even consider sending my guns to Smith.. They both went to Randy Lee. Jerry, if youve had a good experience with Smith & Wesson I'm glad to hear it but it doesnt seem like the norm........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Carmoney why do you write shit like this....whats your bad experience ??? Be careful when you make such a blanket statement Wow, I guess certain things are really sacred.....good thing I'm not a political cartoonist, I'd have death threats against me! To answer your question, Jerry, I honestly believe the days of the old-time craftsman at the S&W factory are largely gone. Not too many years ago, each and every revolver coming off the line required significant hand-fitting in order to even function. Now, with MIM and CNC, the machines build the parts so much more consistently and accurately that the guns can pretty much be put together and they work, without the touch of a stone or file. Without the need for skilled gun-fitters, with every year that passes there are fewer and fewer people at the factory who really understand how these guns work. Even most of the Performance Center guys are pretty clueless when it comes to modern revolver action work. A couple of years ago at the Steel Challenge, S&W's Performance Center managers staffed a display of guns in the vendors' tent. Every last one of the Performance Center revolvers S&W brought along with them had a godawful, heavy, ratchety action. It should have been an embarrassment, but they were oblivious. The last PC revolver I ordered had an action on it that pulled heavier than the Swingline staple guns we use to staple targets at the range. It needed a whole bunch of refitting just to get the hand and ratchet working right. I get around a little, Jerry. Lots of people have had trouble with the factory's "custom" work. Just scroll down through the posts on this forum and you'll find several examples of folks who sent guns in for custom work and were quite disappointed with the results. Glenn Tracey's recent experiences come to mind. I have personally handled a number of S&W revolvers with expensive factory action jobs that I would call "decent." I have never handled a revolver with a factory action job that I would call "great." Most of the truly state-of-the-art stuff being done to revolver actions these days (lightened hammers, improved geometry, truly tuned springs, etc.) is just lost on the guys at S&W. Randy Lee has tried to talk with them, they just respond with blank stares. They're not bad people, but they're sure out of touch. Anyway, I'm sure there are a few folks at the factory that still know what they're doing, and I'm sure a guy still has an outside chance of getting some yeomanlike work done on his Smith by sending it back to Springfield. But long ago I came to the conclusion that to get the kind of performance I wanted out of a S&W revolver--certainly when it comes to action work--I was going to have to learn to work on these guns myself. Nothing personal, though, OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Guys, I need to close this thread. BE's Forum isn't the place to air out the laundry and the customer service issues. And, we are getting past the simple "infomation" content in these posts. Doug, please feel free to start another thread about the specific issues that you are facing with the bushing and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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