Vv Vs Imr For 38 Super?

[nhglyn]

I am looking for folks comments on using VV 3N37 or 3N38 as compared to IMR4756 as poweders for a 38 Super Open gun, I use a Brazos Pro Sx.

If you have used these in a similar gun/comp combination, what are your thoughts as to the ability of each to work the comp? Dot movement? Recoil? I do see that burn rates are similar but would like "practical" information on which ones work better in these types of shortys/comps, and why.

Thanks for any thoughts or opinions. I do realize it is personal preferance but there is such a wealth of experience here at BE that I would like to tap into it.

[al503]

I've tried both 3n38 and 4756 in my SC's and I think I have to give the nod to the 4756. It works the comp better and when you can find the right load, it's very soft.

The only drawback to 4756 is that I find it very sensitive to temp fluxuations. IIRC, 8.7 will make major pf for me in the winter while I need over 9.1-9.2 to make the same in warmer weather. (Powder is all from the same lot.)

The flattest load is with n105. If you fine tune it, you'll get no dot lift and I think it's much easier to find and keep that load (v. 4756) because it doesn't seem to be temp sensitive.

[OpnBlstr]

I am looking for folks comments on using VV 3N37 or 3N38 as compared to IMR4756 as poweders for a 38 Super Open gun, I use a Brazos Pro Sx.

I have tried and used all of the above in my Brazos shorty. The 4756 and 3N38 feel very similar. They are both a good choice. With the 4756 I have to stuff so much powder in there to make power factor that it is really compressing with my 124s and I have to manually slow the shellplate on the 1050 so it doesn't fly out of the case - PITA. It burns a bit dirtier also.

About six months ago I tried 3N37 and haven't switched back. This stuff is the madman of powders for my pistol. It operates the pistol a lot faster, way less dot movement, and the gun seems ready for the next shot much more quickly. Softness doesn't matter to me - I want the pistol ready for the next shot as quickly as possible with predictable dot movement. I like it so much I just bought 25 more pounds of the stuff.

The downside to 3N37 in my shorty...flash. This stuff can light up the night sky!! Even during the day I have people commenting on the flash. At an indoor match be sure to NOT use it. It is a blinding white hot fireball and you can't see much after the first shot. This is likely due to the fact that I have to stuff so much more powder in there as opposed to my 5" - about 8 tenths more. I lose about 10,000 power factor from the 5" to the shorty. It's also loud as hell for bystanders and ROs. Keeps 'em from crowding me though!!

Edited October 26, 2006 by OpnBlstr

[Brazos Custom]

Do not use 3n37 in a Pro Sx or a Pro SC 4.5. You are running way too much pressure/heat and will damage the gun.

p.s. you could probably work up a load using Powder X that would run 100,000 psi and it would feel great, really flat shooting, but it is not too good an idea to run it in your gun unless you want to replace your gun after every match.

[nhglyn]

Bob,

Does that go for 3N38 and N105 also?

[XRe]

Bob has stated elsewhere that N105 and 4756 are his powders of choice for his guns...

[Brazos Custom]

N105 is my personal favorite, 4756 is a close second. 4756 is a lot cheaper and easier to get. Several people are using 3n38 - as far as pressure it is fine - I don't like it as much because it creates a lot of flash in the loads I have tested.

[nhglyn]

Who has N105 and 3N38 in stock at a good price? Do they have the 4 lb bottles as well as the 1 lb ones? Thanks.

[XRe]

N105 in 1# jugs only. Powder Valley currently has 3N38 only in 1# jugs, and is out of 4# of 3N38, and 1# of N105.

You might drop Angus a note - he's a VV dealer, as well, and quoted me a decent price on N105 a while back (its still expensive, due to the 1# only size thing, and whatnot, but...)

[al503]

N105 in 1# jugs only. Powder Valley currently has 3N38 only in 1# jugs, and is out of 4# of 3N38, and 1# of N105.

You might drop Angus a note - he's a VV dealer, as well, and quoted me a decent price on N105 a while back (its still expensive, due to the 1# only size thing, and whatnot, but...)

They're available in 1# jugs only. I bought a bunch from Angus just a couple of months ago. Price was just a little less than PV. Angus is in S. Africa for another week or so though.

[XRe]

3N38 is also available in 4# jugs...

[nhglyn]

Thanks to everyone for their replys. I have decided to work up some loads with both N105 and 3N38. For those that have tried both in an open gun, what do you see as the differences between how they shoot? What loads have you used?.......I use 125 HAP's Thanks again.

[uscbigdawg]

For Super, I love N350. I tried a little 3N37, but it was just too snappy/violent. N350 is a nice push. Tried N105 after shooting Voigt's gun. However, with the number of holes in my gun, I can't make major with it...safely.

Haven't tried 3N38, and really haven't seen any real benefits that would lead me to do so. I do want to try a couple of the IMR powders though. 4756 and 7625 (I think) are popular ones and Max Michel swears by 'em. It's at least worth a try.

For now...N350.

Rich

[XRe]

You can read about my experiences w/ various powders in my gun here: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...666&hl=load

Basically, in my gun, 3N38 worked better, but ended up being fairly dirty (uncorking the pressure a little too soon for it, with where my ports are located). It was more consistent and less harsh in the palm than the N105 loads were. N105 struck me as an *extremely* safe powder, though - and I'd use it if I could find some cheaper than what it goes for.

I suspect that, with the bigger comp, N105 is probably the ticket in your config, though... 4756 is a ton cheaper, though, and would be worth playing with, as well...

[Jimini]

I havethe Brazos Pro series and my friend shoots the Brazos SX shortie. I shoot the n-105 and he shoots the IMR-4756. He prefers the IMR-4756 because it's less expensive and he can't tell the difference. I shoot the N105 because I have a 33 pound drum and I ain't changing or experimenting til it's gone! If there is something better I don't want to know about it.

Beyond that, I love the gun, love the load, make major with 10.2 of N105 (started with 10 grains with a older batch but the new batch required a little more to stay on the + side of 165 pf). Double tap spreads at 15 yards about 3 inches average.

Loading on the 650 without spillage requires moving the seater die next to the powder die. With 10 plus grains in the case you don't need no stink'in powder checker. You can see when you set the bullet that the case is almost full.

So the case is filled in one stage and the bullet is set the very next stage.

[uscbigdawg]

Like I said, I shot Voigt's 5" gun, no ports and it was suweeeeet! N105 and I think 115's but could have been 124's. Almost makes me want a new gun. Thankfully my Viper came to NC today and so back to pure happiness.

Rich

[Front Man]

I havethe Brazos Pro series and my friend shoots the Brazos SX shortie. I shoot the n-105 and he shoots the IMR-4756. He prefers the IMR-4756 because it's less expensive and he can't tell the difference. I shoot the N105 because I have a 33 pound drum and I ain't changing or experimenting til it's gone! If there is something better I don't want to know about it.

Beyond that, I love the gun, love the load, make major with 10.2 of N105 (started with 10 grains with a older batch but the new batch required a little more to stay on the + side of 165 pf). Double tap spreads at 15 yards about 3 inches average.

Loading on the 650 without spillage requires moving the seater die next to the powder die. With 10 plus grains in the case you don't need no stink'in powder checker. You can see when you set the bullet that the case is almost full.

So the case is filled in one stage and the bullet is set the very next stage.

I want a 33 pound drum of N-350!

How did you get a 33 pound drum of N-105?

FM

Edited October 29, 2006 by Front Man

[XRe]

How did you get a 33 pond drum of N-105?

First, he took out another mortgage on his house....

[nhglyn]

Found some of the N105 and have been experimenting with it this weekend. With 10.4 grs I am making a pf of 172.5 and it seems to shoot really flat. 10.2 grs gets me 170.5 pf, feels softer but dot seems to lift more.

Question, I see a couple of posts that say people are using 10 grs +/- and filling the case. My 10.4 grs still has plenty of room in the case (38 Super). Am I missing something? Why do I still have room available?

[XRe]

I could fit 13-ish grains in a case. People are just referencing that, w/ 10-ish in there, its pretty full, and it can spill out easily...

[uscbigdawg]

Now that you've got a great powder to work in your gun, it's time to play with the springs. See if you can make the gun a lil' faster and flatter. Welcome to the viscious circle!

Rich

[Jimini]

I want a 33 pound drum of N-350!

How did you get a 33 pound drum of N-105?

FM

I bought mine from Henry Swarthout who shoots and vendors at matches in the SE.

Also bought a 33 pound of n340. The price of the N105 got down to about 15.00/pound. Savings on the 340 was better.

Question, I see a couple of posts that say people are using 10 grs +/- and filling the case. My 10.4 grs still has plenty of room in the case (38 Super). Am I missing something? Why do I still have room available?

I have about 1/4 inch of space at 10. gr of N105. There is very little difference in terms of volumn to move to 10.4. About 6-8 flakes per .1. My point was that you can see the case is nearly full which eliminates the need for a powder checker. So I moved my seater die over next to the powder die to eliminate the spillage. I also "ride" the shell over with my finger on top and the bullet in my thumb/index. Once it clicks in place I set the bullet and seat it.

[Harmon]

N105 sounds cool....wish i still had a 38 super to shoot it in though.

3n38 is more dense (it seems) as you can still get enough in a 9mm case to make major in a shorty open gun..

Harmon

N105 sounds cool....wish i still had a 38 super to shoot it in though.

3n38 is more dense (it seems) as you can still get enough in a 9mm case to make major in a shorty open gun..

Harmon

[Front Man]

I want a 33 pound drum of N-350!

How did you get a 33 pound drum of N-105?

FM

I bought mine from Henry Swarthout who shoots and vendors at matches in the SE.

Also bought a 33 pound of n340. The price of the N105 got down to about 15.00/pound. Savings on the 340 was better.

Why 33 pounds instead of 30 or 35?

Metric conversion?

Can I buy N-350 in this volume?

(Need N-350 soon.)

FM

[nhglyn]

A heads up for those looking to find N105 to purchase. Midsouth Shooters Supply just got a shipment in. After the bunch I just bought they still have 30+ cans of it available for $21 and change.