Bakes5 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 (edited) I need some tips on being able to watch my sights rise. Am I supposed to watch the front sight the entire time? Seems like when I fire, the sights rise but I keep looking straight ahead. Then when it falls back into place I reacquire the sight, adjust the picture and then fire the next shot. Any tips. Best way to practice? Thanks Troy Edited October 10, 2006 by Bakes5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 See Matt Burkett's timing drills. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 What are you looking at that is straight ahead? And, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_kahuna Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 (edited) yes... watch the sights. You don't have to use your whole head, just your eyeballs. I don't know jack... I'm a noob who just learned how to see the sights lift, who is trying to unlearn 20,000 repetitions of old-school grip and stance... so take anything I say with a grain (or a ton) of salt. In fact, my experience may be the long and hard way to do it... but it worked for me so here goes. Here's what I did and continue to do: Started slow. Dry practiced at home... a lot. Watched my sights remain motionless as the trigger broke, dozens (hundreds?) of repetitions. Reminded myself to cam my support hand down firmly, and keep 70-30 grip tension. Then practiced tracking my sights across 2 or 3 targets in my practice area. I did this in my living room when the kids were not home. This was conscious-competence at first, but became automatic with repetition. Re-read sections 1 and 3 of Brian's book. Livefire practice... kept it slow. Single-loaded my mags at first to resist the temptation to hose down my practice target. Fired shots (many), didn't see sights lift. Got frustrated. Reminded myself to cultivate awareness and focus, and to avoid concentration. Shot again, didn't see sights lift. Tried to relax, failed. Wasted a bunch of ammo. Went home, re-read sections 1 and 3 of Brian's book. Slept. Went back to the range the next day... Gear on, load 1 cartridge into magazine, lock and load... Breathe... Relax. Just shoot. Bang. Saw sights lift and snap back about 80%. Load another single round in magazine, lock and load. Relax. Bang. Saw sights lift and return 80% again. Loaded mag full, lock and load. Bang. Sights lift and return 90%. Bang. Sights lift and start returning... steer sight back on target. Bang. Sights lift and return with steering. Bang. Sights lift and start returning, "will" the sights back on target. Bang, lift, return, will. Bang, lift, return, will. This is where I am at. When I shoot slow, the sights are lifting and returning about 80-90% of travel. I am "willing" the sights back on target during slow fire. Now for the kicker... When I shoot faster (matched pairs onto a cardboard silhouette target), the sights return 100%. Weird, eh? Jeez, I sure hope you're a faster learner than I am Edited October 10, 2006 by big_kahuna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 (edited) I think that seeing the sights throughout the firing cycle is not always the goal in and of itself. If I have it right, it's something that you are aware of as you shoot, but may not be something you are trying to achieve directly. It might be more a consequence of developing a high level of awareness. In Beyond Fundamentalsl, Brian talks about awareness as you shoot, taking in all the things happening to you, the gun and your shooting environment that help you shoot at a high level. Awareness of the sights lifting shows attention to the sight picture as the shot breaks. Awareness of the sight path back to the next sight picture helps you (subconsiously) control the gun in recoil and in transitioning to the next target/shot. So I guess that we're shooting not to see the sights rise and return, we're shooting to hit the targets accurately and quickly. Seeing the sights rise and return shows some development and awareness of the techniques used for aiming and recoil management. Of course, I can't really do much of this, so maybe I'm just blowing a lot of smoke Kevin C Edited October 10, 2006 by kevin c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 ... it's like watching leaves fall from a tree. Watch a leaf and you'll see one fall. Watch the tree and you'll see them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 ... it's like watching leaves fall from a tree. Watch a leaf and you'll see one fall. Watch the tree and you'll see them all. Only problem is i have to #%&ing rake them all up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakes5 Posted October 16, 2006 Author Share Posted October 16, 2006 What are you looking at that is straight ahead? And, why? I'm looking at my front site...Front sight sharp...target and rear sight notch out of focus. I tried following the sight up directly (i.e. the sight moves up and I keep looking directly at the sight ..basically my eyeball tracks up for a split second) and I don't see how that can be the trick. It is very distracting. My thought is that I focus on front sight then once I fire I think that I need to "keep track" of the front site as it rises rather than actually follow the sight...kind of like I keep track of the rear sight as I create my sight picture. Does that make sense or should I be practicing something different. Thanks Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Troy, you need to see the instant it starts to lift, that will allow you to call your shots accurately. If you see where it is when it starts to lift you know where the bullet went. Now you need to see it settle in, if you can track it up and around and back down great, but I don't think that is ncecessary. If the front sight is sharp and clear, lifts out of the notch and comes back sharp and clear all is well. Some people can watch it all the way up and all the way down without any problems, but it isn't necessary to see all of that in that level of detail. You must know where the last bullet went and where the next one will go. It isn't hard, but it takes tremendous patience. It feels slow to me, but the timer disagrees completely. I shoot a lot of A's at a respectable rate when I do this, when I don't I shoot a lot of shots at a respectable speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Keep your chin up when you fire. If your eyeballs run out of travel before the sights do, you'll never see the full cycle. Lots of people get into an IPSC-turtle stance without even knowing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightkrawler00 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Keep your chin up when you fire. If your eyeballs run out of travel before the sights do, you'll never see the full cycle. Lots of people get into an IPSC-turtle stance without even knowing it. This is something that I just discovered a couple of weeks ago. BTW, I can recommend Insights Training Center in Issiquah WA, specifically the Intensive Handgun class, learned a lot and broke through some barrieres that were holding me up. I've always worn a hat when shooting, plus kept my head down. Not only was I running out of eye movement, the front sight was rising above the bill of my hat. "Thrusting" my chin forward and forcing my eyes open got me to seeing my sights rise, which is something I've struggled with. Just this wasn't doing it completely for me, but it was whole lot better than what I had been seeing. Then the instructor gave up a good tip, watch the brass leave the gun. Three rounds later and I hit the "zone". Not only could I see the brass exit the gun, I could see the smoke wafting out of the mouth of the case, the case just kind of tumbling along. After the shot I recall seeing the brass as well as being very aware of the front sight and its track through recoil. Watching for the brass broke my concentration on the front sight and allowed me to be more aware of everything that was going on. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinwb Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I need some tips on being able to watch my sights rise. Am I supposed to watch the front sight the entire time? Seems like when I fire, the sights rise but I keep looking straight ahead. Then when it falls back into place I reacquire the sight, adjust the picture and then fire the next shot. Any tips. Best way to practice? Thanks Troy I need help with it to, that is my biggest area I need to focus on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 My thought is that I focus on front sight then once I fire I think that I need to "keep track" of the front site as it rises rather than actually follow the sight... I think this is close ... focus on the front sight plane .... not the front sight itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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