Hodgdon Lil' Gun Powder

[open17]

I see on Hodgdons website that they list a 38 super "IPSC" load using Lil' Gun powder.

135 gr, PF 183+ !!!

Anyone tried this stuff in 9 Major? 38 Super? Is it dense enough to make major

in the 9mm case?

Bill

[sargenv]

I would suspect that this stuff works good with heavy bullets but might not work as well with a light bullet. Lil'gun is made for use in a 410 shotshell. The usual suspects as far as powder go for a .410 are along the burn rates of Alliant 2400, H110/296, H or IMR 4227, and Accurate #9, all would be considered magnum (ie 357, 41, 44, 50 AE) handgun powders and generally they perform better with heavier rather than lighter bullets. I wouldn't mind being proved wrong however

I've done some experimenting with the H110 surplus powder (WC 820) and found that with a 135 gr Zero compressing the powder in the super I couldn't manage anything above a 150 PF. I suspect that Lil'gun is denser with similar energy as the H110 class of powders. I don't know that it would work in something like 9 Major since there just might not be enough room.. but since I've yet to get any Lil'gun, I'm merely speculating.

I can say that I have some experience with Longshot in 38 super and my starting load in that made major (6.9gr, PF 167). Longshot seemed to run out of steam however the higher I went. I had 3 top loads, 7.7, 7.9 and 8.1, and the average velocities for the three were 1337(180.5), 1344(181.4), and 1335(180.2). Seems 7.9 was the point of diminishing return. I'd heard of this happening in shotshells some years back but had not experienced it in a handgun cartridge till that loading.

Vince

[MTrout40]

I tried Lil Gun years ago in a super. With the 135gr it took about 4 more grains of powder than what was listed. With a 124 it took ALOT of powder to get PF. If fact, I think I was in the 15 or 16 grain area if not more! It left a TON of unburnt powder in the gun. After shooting 6 or 7 rounds I could have scraped the powder out of the gun and loaded another round or two. It was horrible!

It did feel similar to HS7 though. It was soft and not real loud.

[open17]

I tried Lil Gun years ago in a super. With the 135gr it took about 4 more grains of powder than what was listed. With a 124 it took ALOT of powder to get PF. If fact, I think I was in the 15 or 16 grain area if not more! It left a TON of unburnt powder in the gun. After shooting 6 or 7 rounds I could have scraped the powder out of the gun and loaded another round or two. It was horrible!

It did feel similar to HS7 though. It was soft and not real loud.

Thanks. I kind of figured it wasn't dense enough for 9 major, but you have convinced

me! Doing a little more research, it appears that Lil'Gun has a density that's really close to H110. About 150% as bulky as HS7, with a higher charge weight to achieve similar velocity. I'll cross this one off of my list.

[MTrout40]

Yeah, when you need to throw rifle charges in a super to make major....I'd call it bulky!!! LOL

If you're looking for a high density/slow burning load for a 9 major.....A nice load I was using was 10gr of HS7 with a 115gr bullet. It's up there so work up to that!!!! I started at 9gr. I like it becasue it's really flat, but my fiance shoots my open gun more than I do and she likes the 7625 load better because it has less concusion. HTH

[open17]

Yeah, when you need to throw rifle charges in a super to make major....I'd call it bulky!!! LOL

If you're looking for a high density/slow burning load for a 9 major.....A nice load I was using was 10gr of HS7 with a 115gr bullet. It's up there so work up to that!!!! I started at 9gr. I like it becasue it's really flat, but my fiance shoots my open gun more than I do and she likes the 7625 load better because it has less concusion. HTH

Been using the HS7 for about 3 years in 9 major. If you think the concussion is bad

with it, try Longshot. Loosens your fillings. Hodgdon discontinued HS7, that's why

I'm looking at other powders. I've got loads worked up in 3N37 and HS6 that work

fine, but always looking for something better. Thought maybe Lil' Gun had possibilities.

Just not all that many choices out there for powders that will make major in 9x19

loaded short enough to function in a Glock mag.

[revchuck]

If you think the concussion is bad

with it, try Longshot.

I'll vouch for that. I use a .357 Mag Major load for ESR with Longshot and 158 grain JHPs. A friend told me he had to cover his ears when I shot. I said he should have had plugs in. He replied that he did.

[joecichlid]

What are you talking about, Longshot isn't that loud. Could someone get that phone please?? LOL Yeah it is a little barky out of a Super but that is all I use right now. If you think it is bad out of the little hole punchers, you should try 8.4 grains with a 185 grain bullet out of a comped .45 bowling pin gun. Talk about FIRE ball!! lol Take a look at my avitar if you want to see what it looks like.

I will have to say I really like how it shoots out of my .38 Super and that it burns clean in my gun as well as shows little to no preasure issues in the brass.

Joe W.

Yeah, when you need to throw rifle charges in a super to make major....I'd call it bulky!!! LOL

If you're looking for a high density/slow burning load for a 9 major.....A nice load I was using was 10gr of HS7 with a 115gr bullet. It's up there so work up to that!!!! I started at 9gr. I like it becasue it's really flat, but my fiance shoots my open gun more than I do and she likes the 7625 load better because it has less concusion. HTH

Been using the HS7 for about 3 years in 9 major. If you think the concussion is bad

with it, try Longshot. Loosens your fillings. Hodgdon discontinued HS7, that's why

I'm looking at other powders. I've got loads worked up in 3N37 and HS6 that work

fine, but always looking for something better. Thought maybe Lil' Gun had possibilities.

Just not all that many choices out there for powders that will make major in 9x19

loaded short enough to function in a Glock mag.

[Harmon]

7 grains of longshot is major in my fullsize 9mm ...at 1400 fps avg and the cases still have a black soot ring on the neck... pretty low pressure for major 9

Harmon

[joecichlid]

I have the soot ring on my .38 Super brass as well and I have a feeling it is because of the low preasure as well. Either way I love the powder because it burns so well and cleanly in my gun as well as the fact I am making major with it and that I can find it at most local gun shops as well.

Joe W.

[sargenv]

I'm wondering why no one has tried Blue Dot? Or maybe they have but they are keeping quiet? I had a friend who used to make very hot loads with Blue Dot and Sierra JHC 115's. They were so fierce, the jackets were shedding.. we'd find the holes in the targets and little pieces of jacket embedded into the paper. His gun of choice was a Sig 226 in 9mm. Gecco brass (Fiocchi I'm told) and Winchester Magnum Small pistol primers. These were seated long.. similar to how people seat 9 major now.

Vince

[MTrout40]

I'm wondering why no one has tried Blue Dot? Or maybe they have but they are keeping quiet? I had a friend who used to make very hot loads with Blue Dot and Sierra JHC 115's. They were so fierce, the jackets were shedding.. we'd find the holes in the targets and little pieces of jacket embedded into the paper. His gun of choice was a Sig 226 in 9mm. Gecco brass (Fiocchi I'm told) and Winchester Magnum Small pistol primers. These were seated long.. similar to how people seat 9 major now.

Vince

Did your friend ever chrono his loads? I know BD was popular a long time ago at the old power factor, but it seems to have dropped off the map with all the new powders now. I wonder if you can get enough in a 9 case for major?

The slowest I've tried was HS7, which I love, but if it's discontinued it won't do anyone much good. I'd like to find something in the 8, 9, or 10 grain range with a 115.

Harmon, how does longshot work in your shorty (assuming it's a 9?) ? Still okay on pressure and PF?

[sargenv]

I do believe he did chrono a few and they were pushing over 1375 fps. They were very annoying loads as I recall since someone accused him of shooting a larger caliber out of that thing. I remember that when it went off, any brass that was on the table, jumped an inch or so at the concussion. I tended to stay away from it when he was shooting it.

Something to also consider is that Blue dot back then was of a slightly different formulation than it is now. I know that after the Fire at the production plant back east in the 90's, depending on if you had pre-fire or post fire powder, it had a considerably different burn rate. Shotshell manuals from Ballistic Products changed their data for shotshell loads after the fire since the powder acted differently with previous load data. He was pushing what the gun could handle but AFAIK his brother still occasionally takes that 226 to the range.

Vince

[joecichlid]

Blue Dot=FIREBALL!! One of the older shooters at the club I belong to shoots it every so often and at an indoor range it is a little spooky at times lol That stuff will throw fire about TWO feet out of the top of his comp.

Joe

[AlamoShooter]

Did everyone give up on the Lil' Gun powder? most of the post are older

A friend is looking at data, and by the printed material from Hodgdon looks like it should work.

But by the original post it looks like that is a NO.

Any one with good results in a light 38 super load

[skip62]

Did everyone give up on the Lil' Gun powder? most of the post are older

A friend is looking at data, and by the printed material from Hodgdon looks like it should work.

But by the original post it looks like that is a NO.

Any one with good results in a light 38 super load

My buddy tried it to make major with his Super. I think he said he got to like 150-155 PF before the velocities got lower with more powder. Hodgdon must just use calculations, and actual test data.

Edited February 13, 2009 by skip62