Realization: Grip, Stance, Speed And "seeing"

[big_kahuna]

I just realized that I've been deluding myself.

I "thought" that I was doing 0.9 second draws with occasional 0.8's. This is in dry-practice using the par timer on Matt B's website. I also "thought" that I was a few tenths slower in livefire.

I thought wrong. Did some livefire practice today with ParaJoe, and got to use a decent shot timer lent to me from L2S. Draw to first shot was 1.5 to 1.8 seconds. Timer doesn't lie. Steve Anderson's book talks about being "brutally honest" in dry practice, now I'm starting to understand.

Also struggling to learn the cammed grip and modified isosceles that ParaJoe uses, the grip many folks on the board seem to use and advocate. Bear in mind that I've been using weaver/modified weaver with isometric push-pull since 1983. It's like my mind is overwhelmed by trying to remember all the differences: 70/30 grip... strong hand relaxed, weak hand c-clamp grip with camming... relax elbows, don't lock 'em... square base more, more isosceles... etc ad nauseum. Man, this is tough.

One more thing is on my mind... seeing. Seeing the sights lift, seeing the next target before moving in transition. I actually did this a few times today, but that was after I was becoming exhausted (and many rounds) and I finally started relaxing. Relaxing! I wasted many rounds "trying" to relax... eventually I just relaxed, no trying. Gotta remember the experience.

I thought I had learned plenty since 1983... Today I learned that I have a lot to learn.

[10ring]

Much of what you're trying to do can be done with dry fire practice to work out the grip, stance and relaxation. It takes quite a bit of work to change the "hard-wired" platform you're presently using. Just keep working at it and eventually it will replace what you were using.

[Loves2Shoot]

Dry fire times are much closer shooting open that limited. Limited times can be way off from what I see posted versus people shooting in matches and practice.

Just hold the gun as much as you can, once you get it, it stick pretty well.

[big_kahuna]

Thanks 10ring.

Hardwired, hmm? Now that I think about it, that is a very accurate description of how it feels.

I've been re-reading Brian's book, and realized that I had been trying to concentrate instead of using awareness and focus. So, I quieted my spirit and emptied the glass... to observe without thought or judgment. I did a couple hundred reps of grip/stance yesterday, did a hundred more this morning and went to livefire in the afternoon. The experience was very fulfilling. I also noticed some improvement, and that is encouraging.

Camming grip doesn't hurt like it used to, now just a stretch instead of pain. When firing, I saw the sights lift... but they did not snap all the way back; they returned about 80% of the way. Interesting that I didn't notice that before. I initially steered the sights back on target and broke the next shots, then after a while it felt like I was "willing" the sights back on target... This was wierd, but cool. Ever hear about something like this? Did I spend too much time in the sun without water? I welcome any feedback or pointers you might have on this phenomenon.

I realized today that my expectations are a source of stress for me. My practice session on Friday was frustrating because I did not perform as well as expected. Today, I had no expectations and was observing; no frustration, just shooting and enjoying the moment.

[big_kahuna]

Dry fire times are much closer shooting open that limited. Limited times can be way off from what I see posted versus people shooting in matches and practice.

Thanks, Scott! In practice today, I noticed that everything felt really slow... but the timer showed the same times as before (about 1.5-1.8 seconds). Weird, huh?

Just hold the gun as much as you can, once you get it, it stick pretty well.

Roger that man! I watched the videos on your website, and think they are helping me understand this grip/sights-returning thing.

Kindest Regards,

big_kahuna

[Flexmoney]

...When firing, I saw the sights lift... but they did not snap all the way back; they returned about 80% of the way. Interesting that I didn't notice that before...

Were you doing (fairly) slow fire ? With a goal of seeing the sights lift ?

That is when I usually see something like that. Which, kinda makes sense..since that is what I asked the body to do.

... I initially steered the sights back on target and broke the next shots, then after a while it felt like I was "willing" the sights back on target... This was wierd, but cool. Ever hear about something like this? ...

Sounds like you were having a great day...lots of awareness.

Once you noticed the sights weren't coming back, you added returning the sights into your program...and the body/mind started to perform the added goal.

Keep that awareness up there (without trying) and you will continue to learn about your shooting...at an incredible level.

And, keep an end goal in mind...as basic and fundamental as you can reason...and your body/mind will help you get there.

I realized today that my expectations are a source of stress for me. My practice session on Friday was frustrating because I did not perform as well as expected. Today, I had no expectations and was observing; no frustration, just shooting and enjoying the moment.

Huge. Thanks for reminding me to "just shoot".

[Matt Griffin]

If you were using the RUReady software par timer for a PC, then fair warning: The starting beep isn't included in the time! It's approx. .4 sec long, so adjust accordingly.

H.

[big_kahuna]

Were you doing (fairly) slow fire ? With a goal of seeing the sights lift ?

Flex,

Yes, it was during slow fire that I noticed the 80% return. I started off slow so I could "see" and observe. As I started "seeing" more, my speed just gradually increased (I was in auto-pilot, if that makes sense).

I did a half-hour of draws and dry fires again last night. I started off with my mind quiet but I couldn't keep my analytical inner voice shut up. This seems to happen every time I dry practice, where I critically review what I am doing. This differs from livefire, where my goal is to have the awareness and focus that

Questions: is dryfire the time for critical analysis and livefire the time to "just shoot"? Or should my mental/emotional state be the same in dryfire as livefire?

[Chuck Merriam]

I am not the fastest nor the best but I can hold my own. +1 on Auto-pilot....you will experience the fastest runs on the stages you are most (prepaired, comfortable, calm, relaxed) these are all the same thing. When you get done you will remember all the moves like a movie (The Zone) I have vastly improved my overall shooting by rehearsing the stage in my head with eyes closed just before I go on stage. This gives my mind a preview of what is about to happen, and lets me relax to auto pilot. No negative thoughts allowed. I also evaluate the key point of the stage, be it speed or other stuff. This however doesn't mean I don't make mistakes, have a bad plan, or change in mid stream but it cuts the screw-ups way down. On a similar note...people often comment on how children learn complicated (to adults) things easily. I think this is because their brains are involved just enough to let it happen. So my advise is to shoot more matches and think less on mechanics. Also don't add to many adjustments at once or you will be the guy standing on the tee over his ball for ten minutes trying to settle the growing demons in his mind.

[Cole]

Really good points.

I really like the idea of not working too many new adjustments at once. It allows you to concentrate, isolate, then repeat enough to incorporate them without thinking . . . then move to the next part of your game.

A few weeks ago I took a great class with Bruce Gray that really helped me to do just that. I've been dry-firing like a madman . . . just doing trigger reset, trigger prep, and follow through . . . again and again and again. It's the best way I can figure to correct my slap-happy ways.

I've rewarded myself with a few trips to the range, and my accuracy is making marked improvement.

It's asy to let yourself get overwhelmed if you ask too much of yourself. Bite-sized learning works for me.

[Flexmoney]

Questions: is dryfire the time for critical analysis and livefire the time to "just shoot"? Or should my mental/emotional state be the same in dryfire as livefire?

That is really hard to answer.

Your conscious mind can only be thinking of one thing at a time. The goal of practice, be it live or dry, ought to be to build solid skills into the sub-conscious mind...to make those proper skills become automatic.

But, you also have to learn those proper skills. So, before you can burn them in and make them automatic, you have to figure out what works.

"Just Shooting" ...for me...is at the top of the pyramid.

Or, maybe it is just accepting the skills that you have built and...right before you shoot a stage for score...you get into a mindset that lets you "just shoot" at whatever your current skill level may be.

Regardless, you want to get to be more and more aware as you do things. Awareness, for me, is kinda like observing reality. I might have something on my mind, and have expectations about how something should go or what I should see...but, awareness lets me collect data (using whatever sensors my body can muster) about what is really going on. The more aware I can allow myself to be, the more data I can collect.

Brian talks about classic concentration in his book. He relates that to focusing in on a narrow point...block other things out. Awareness is more of an opening up and allowing more and more in. It can be pretty relaxing (tension kills) when we let it happen.

[tptplayer]

If you were using the RUReady software par timer for a PC, then fair warning: The starting beep isn't included in the time! It's approx. .4 sec long, so adjust accordingly.

H.

Thanks for that bit of information. I knew that RU times were faster than real time but didn't worry about it. It is good to know exactly what is going on.

[big_kahuna]

If you were using the RUReady software par timer for a PC, then fair warning: The starting beep isn't included in the time! It's approx. .4 sec long, so adjust accordingly.

H.

Thanks for that bit of information. I knew that RU times were faster than real time but didn't worry about it. It is good to know exactly what is going on.

Thanks Houngan. I was using the par timer on the Matt Burkett website, not sure if that has any relation to RUReady. I will keep the possible delay in mind when using a PC-based timer.

[big_kahuna]

Your conscious mind can only be thinking of one thing at a time. The goal of practice, be it live or dry, ought to be to build solid skills into the sub-conscious mind...to make those proper skills become automatic.

But, you also have to learn those proper skills. So, before you can burn them in and make them automatic, you have to figure out what works.

"Just Shooting" ...for me...is at the top of the pyramid.

Or, maybe it is just accepting the skills that you have built and...right before you shoot a stage for score...you get into a mindset that lets you "just shoot" at whatever your current skill level may be.

Thanks Flex. I think I can get my head around this... Please review and comment on my conceptual theory (with shameless plagiarism from some management doctrine I got at work years ago)...

4 levels of skill development:

1. unconscious incompetent (don't know what I don't know)

2. conscious incompetent (realization that I need/want to get better)

3. conscious competent (practice with conscious refinement and focused effort)

4. unconscious competent (fluid competence without conscious thought)

Okay, here's my theory on my journey in progress:

Already sprinted through levels 1 and 2. I am currently practicing at level 3 (dry/live-firing with conscious focus on proper form) to imprint/embed the muscle memory and kinesthetic patterns. With enough repetition, these patterns are (hopefully) becoming programmed into my subconscious (level 4, correct execution with awareness but without conscious thought). By keeping awareness in practice, I should be able to detect when something needs refinement and I switch back to level 3 (to further refine and imprint/embed). I then should continue ongoing cycles between levels 3 and 4 as I continue to practice, basically forever. On gamedays, I then (hopefully) trust the programming and "just shoot" in level 4.

Does this sound right? I hope so, this is making sense to me and that rarely happens!

Regardless, you want to get to be more and more aware as you do things. Awareness, for me, is kinda like observing reality. I might have something on my mind, and have expectations about how something should go or what I should see...but, awareness lets me collect data (using whatever sensors my body can muster) about what is really going on. The more aware I can allow myself to be, the more data I can collect.

Brian talks about classic concentration in his book. He relates that to focusing in on a narrow point...block other things out. Awareness is more of an opening up and allowing more and more in. It can be pretty relaxing (tension kills) when we let it happen.

Thanks for the description, it helps alot. This is a really big issue to me right now. I've been shooting since the early 80's and never really experienced awareness in shooting until recently. I have been re-reading section 1 of Brian's book and practicing to embed this mindset. Even now, it takes me several minutes of "quiet time" to enable awareness (and sometimes it is really elusive)... I default to "concentration" very easily, probably programmed that way by my military and professional environments. I hope that with continued experience I can develop awareness passively or at least on demand. I think my challenge is that I "try" to relax, "try" to be aware... and "trying" seems to be self defeating in both relaxation and awareness. Maybe Yoda was right: "Try? There is no try. Just do." Maybe more meditation will help?

[Flexmoney]

It sounds like you are hitting on all cylinders...I hope I have you on the right road.

[38supPat]

Try firing into the backstop on the draw, don't bother aiming at anything in particular. Just don't miss the backstop!! When dryfiring there is no anticipation of the gun firing, so you will confidently hit the trigger everytime. But in live fire you WANT to hit the target. If the sights are not right there or the draw felt a bit off, you may hold the shot until everything is confirmed.

See what it is like to just release the shot without caring about where it lands (I know this sounds a bit contrary to normal thought on shooting) you need to convince yourself that you can drop the hammer with a live round the same as with an empty gun.

[big_kahuna]

Try firing into the backstop on the draw, don't bother aiming at anything in particular. Just don't miss the backstop!! When dryfiring there is no anticipation of the gun firing, so you will confidently hit the trigger everytime. But in live fire you WANT to hit the target. If the sights are not right there or the draw felt a bit off, you may hold the shot until everything is confirmed.

See what it is like to just release the shot without caring about where it lands (I know this sounds a bit contrary to normal thought on shooting) you need to convince yourself that you can drop the hammer with a live round the same as with an empty gun.

Roger that Pat, I'll do that at next practice. I must confess that this does seem a little different, but at this point I'm willing to try almost anything!

I appreciate the pointers!

Kindest Regards,

bk