Production Style Shooting

[oddjob]

I remember reading in a Front Sight that someone mentioned if shooting Production Div it may be better to shoot standing still rather than on the move to get as many "A's" as possible. What I gathered from that is slow down a tad for "A" hits. Do people here feel its true?? Do you guys (or gals) shoot a different game plan from lets say L-10 vs Production on the same stage? I ask because I'm shooting Production now for the first time........thanks

[SteveZ]

I don't shoot production...but I have shot Single Stack which requires one to slow down a little also because of ammo management problems. My approach for SSD is to make SURE I hit the target when accuracy is important (because I can't afford to miss and make a make up shot) and go like my hair's on fire everywhere else.

Angus Hobdell did a radio interview with Matt Burkett (www.mattburkett.com) a few weeks ago and he was basically saying the same thing you are....for production he slows down a little and also tries to compress the distance from himself to the targets to increase Alphas.

Matt archives the radio interviews. I'd recommend logging onto his site and downloading the Angus Hobdell interview and listening to it.

Edited July 21, 2006 by SteveZ

[Kevin Kline]

Good info, thanks Steve

[mcoliver]

Strangely, I've never thought of it as purposely "slowing down". Instead, I try to get a relatively more refined sight pic and my times does appear to be a bit slower compared to my times in Standard/Limited. But my times (in Prod) are still definitely faster than it once was years ago.

As for making a decision to plant and shoot vs moving and shooting, you need to figure that one out in practice. See if your current skill level allows you to shoot while moving and get your A's. If not, practice it. Most cases it's a big time saver.

[SRT Driver]

For me, shooting Production means taking fewer risky shots. (ie, 25 yard partials leaning on one foot around a barricade)

And paying attention to the sights more since a charlie costs you twice as much shooting minor and a delta is essentially a NPM.

[oddjob]

Listened to the Burkett/Hobdell interview. Very good information from everyone. Since shooting Production I find the minor scoring system a good challenge against the major shooters (in L-10 & SS).

[sturmruger]

This year I have been shooting Lim 10 at my local weekly league with a major load, and have been shooting Production on the weekends with my minor load. I have to conciously slow down otherwise I start throwing all sorts of Charlie hits. My guns are both XDs so the only real difference is my holsters and what kind of hits I feel comfortable with.

[Gary1911A1]

I wouldn't try to shoot standing still unless you have to shoot from a box or it's a very difficult target. Standing still just eats up so much time you may be better off with a C hit.

[Matt Griffin]

In principle, A hits are preferable because

1. 10 round limitation inherently reduces the hit factor of the stage (I know, reload while moving, but there are always going to be some times when that isn't possible, nor can you really run 100% as fast while reloading)

2. "Slower" guns also reduce the hit factor. (I know, plenty of production GMs are just as fast shot-to-shot, but as a whole Production is going to be splitting slower)

3. No major power factor makes non-A hits hurt more

Stage to stage it will change, but there is an argument to be made about a general rule of trying for more As.

H.

[Flexmoney]

OK...I gotta address a few things.

- Consciously doing anything isn't good. A shooter needs to define the exact outcome they want (for Production, it had better be shooting Alphas). Then, they need to put in the work to make that outcome second nature. Consciously doing stuff is linear. You can only do one thing at a time in conscious thought.

It is my opinion that Leatham, when he shoot the XD in the Production Nationals a few years ago, was in a place where he was shooting with some conscious thought. That is the way it appeared to me. Dave S. beat him that year.

- Slowing down to "do X". Anytime you think of slowing down or speeding up...that means you are thinking about speed. Don't tell yourself to slow down to shoot Alphas. Just tell yourself to shoot Alphas.

- Shooting Minor...get the Alphas. C's are too many points down. D's are like no-penalty Mikes.

- In Production, there is so much other stuff going on, and points are so important, that you need to get the Alphas when it comes time to shoot. Look for efficiencies (time) on the non-shooting portions of the stage.

- I see very few places, for even the top Production shooters, to be shooting on the move. If you are going to do it, you had better be good enough to get the points while doing so...then, be able to hit your reload in a step and be doing all the stuff needed to get to the next bit of shooting.

- Most shooters would be better served, in my opinion, by first learning the get into and out of positions well. And, for Production, they need to be able to hit that reload in the first step. The old mag ought to be on the ground where they got done shooting the last array.

- If you want to learn to shoot well on the move, be prepared to burn piles of ammo to get there. After all, you will be shooting from a platform that (one) isn't your regular, (two) isn't as stable, and (three) you will be shooting minor, where anything but Alphas eats away at the score...greatly. There are many skills that you won't be working on while you spend resources (time and money) on shooting on the move. Can you afford that in any way?

[andrewcolglazier]

Bottom line - if doing "X" will likely prevent youi from shooting alphas, do "Y" instead.

Watching the top shooters makes it very clear that they don't often take any risks. They must shoot a high percentage of alphas, and they don't do things which might endanger that goal.

Andy C.

[Kevin Kline]

I agree with a lot of what Flex outlined. I would shoot only as fast as I can call A's. I do not think of shooting slower or faster, but only as fast as I can see A hits. Plus, I prefer to slow down or stop to get the better hits in Production b/c you're losing twice the amount of points as shooting Major.

[oddjob]

I also like what Flex says about "A's"

Good Call on this.

- "Slowing down to "do X". Anytime you think of slowing down or speeding up...that means you are thinking about speed. Don't tell yourself to slow down to shoot Alphas. Just tell yourself to shoot Alphas."

I like this thought process.......I know we all try do it, but I still like this. When I went from Limited to L-10 (single stack) I had fun planning and shooting the stage. With Production its now even more fun because of the minor scoring challenge and this makes me think even more. Shooting on the move didn't bother me when I was shooting major. Minor seems to make me re-think, depending on the stage. I like these "minor" observations and thoughts.

[Nik Habicht]

OK...I gotta address a few things.

- I see very few places, for even the top Production shooters, to be shooting on the move. If you are going to do it, you had better be good enough to get the points while doing so...then, be able to hit your reload in a step and be doing all the stuff needed to get to the next bit of shooting.

- Most shooters would be better served, in my opinion, by first learning the get into and out of positions well. And, for Production, they need to be able to hit that reload in the first step. The old mag ought to be on the ground where they got done shooting the last array.

It's funny ---- I've noticed something in my shooting, and was working through how to post it as a question, only to find it here. In the beginning, I sucked. A couple of years ago, I got to be o.k. at shooting on the move, and my scores started improving, because I was shooting or reloading pretty much the entire time the clock was running. I was flowing --- well as much as someone my size can flow --- through the stages.

Lately I'm finding myself shooting more stuff standing still, and then racing to set-up in the next position, usually stepping on my mag as I leave. I was wondering if this was normal --- or if it really just reflected my lack of practicing shooting on the move. Now I'm inclined to think that Marques was right when he said once: Shoot on the move? Why would you want to give up perfectly good points?"

[SRT Driver]

1. Production is all about the points. Remember that a charlie costs .4.

2. A direct line is faster than weaving or zig zagging.

3. So many are too focused on splits and they forget transitions - transitions -

transitions!!!!

4. Know your skill set and plan accordingly.

5. Start shooting as soon as you are in position and get out of position as soon as you are

done shooting.

6. Don't try to shoot a stage like you would with your open / limited gun with a few extra

reloads. Each point is .2. Sometimes it might take less time to move a few yards to

get a clean shot than to try a risky shot especially if you have to move that direction

anyway.

7. Don't keep score as you shoot. If you have to look at the target..it's too late.