Cooper's "Conditions"

[Duane Thomas]

Uh, actually, I do.

[Vince Pinto]

Duane is correct. In C2, the hammer must be all the way down, not just sitting on half-cock.

There's a full explanation here.

[shred]

Ok, how about for a Revolver?  Or Glock?  Or Mataeba?   There are so many different guns the conditions don't really fit-- I suppose we could have:

"Gun will [or will not] go bang now if all I pull is the trigger"

or maybe:

"Bullet will [or will not] come out barrel if gun is sufficiently heated"

[Duane Thomas]

It's always been understood that the "Conditions" only apply to single action autos.

[2alpha]

.....to see what condition my condition was in, yeh yeh, yeh..........

[shred]

So therefore they're pointless for IPSC matches, which despite massive efforts to the contrary, are still occasionally plagued by examples of weak, unreliable, poor-excuses of no-good firearms that don't correspond to the Sainted Cooper's ideals.

[Duane Thomas]

It's a horrible thing.

[DogmaDog]

Actually, the conditions do apply to other weapons.

Here's how recruits are made to recite the conditions for the M16A2:

"Sir, a condition 1 weapon has a full magazine inserted, bolt forward on a loaded chamber, weapon on safe!"

"Condition 2:  there is no condition 2"

"Condition 3:  full magazine inserted, bolt forward on an empty chamber, weapon on safe!"

"Condition 4:  Magazine removed, bolt forward on an empty chamber, weapon on safe!"

They actually made us recite "condition 2, there is no condition 2", which is the case for most of our current service small arms.  

It's the same for the Beretta as for the M16 (substitute "slide" for "bolt&quot.

There is no "condition 0" in current use...the condition codes are carry conditions...all are "safe" ways to carry your weapon.  They pretty much go out the window when the shooting starts.

But, yeah...enough of my blather.  Works well in the Marine Corps, apparently doesn't work so well, and probably won't ever, at the local gun club.

Semper fi,

DogmaDog

[benos]

Wow, I'm not really a "rules" man, so I don't frequent this forum much, but, when I saw the Cooper "visionary and character" remarks, I just felt like I had to say something.

I've got no problem with the visionary, straightforward, or direct thing whatsoever. But I've witnessed his "character" in action several times, and consequently don't feel he has much.

just my .02...

be

[Phil Dunlop]

Vince,

though I knew the conditions beforehand I had never encountered them in a match before WS in Cebu.

Since then I have encountered them regularly in matches on this side of the world.

They have never stood alone without explanation ata briefing and I am unaware of confusion or problems relating to their use.

I'm not bothered one way or other about them FWIW,

P.D.

[Vince Pinto]

Hi Phil,

You're a bit late to this party - must be all that turkey & eggnog. I'm still eating leftovers as I suspect the "turkey" my wife cooked was really an Emu (Ostrich).

Yes, the biggest offenders have been my mates in the Philippines but, thankfully, the new NROI Chief Rey Ganaban has promised me he'll sort his guys out. The old chief (who is Godfather to my youngest boy!), is a stubborn bugger who refused to see the light.

Apart from the fact that most people don't know the difference between C2 and C3, the ROs had to explain it, even to their own people!

It therefore seems to me that saying "chamber empty, magazine inserted" from the very outset would make life easier and avoid misunderstandings.

[Phil Dunlop]

Vince,

it was Pavlova on the beach and Steinlarger, this is NZ!!

P.D.

[Vince Pinto]

I'm jealous. Really jealous. I haven't had a decent strawberry and passionfruit Pavlova for years.

BTW, next time you should try drinking it with beer, not Steinlager

[Phil Dunlop]

Vince,

I'd have invited you for the Pav, goes down well after an afternoon snapper fishing or diving for crays, but that dig at our beer was unforgivable! I'm hurt.

P.D.