BDH Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Should range staff at major matches be reviewed (kind of like the Refs that judged the Superbowl, or the BCS games)? If so, who reviews them?? The shooters? Their fellow range staff? Looking for your input.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 While there's no formal "grading" structure for ROs at major IPSC matches, one of the RM's duties under Rule 7.1.4 is to be "responsible for the training, instruction and conduct of the range staff". The RM also has the authority under sub-section 7.2 et al to discipline ROs but, thankfully, such incidents are few and far between. So, unless a complaint is recieved, the RM lets his guys do their thing. Some matches pass out "Vote for the best RO" forms for competitors, but these have no bearing on the handling of problem ROs. Remember that ROs are humans like the rest of us, so they have bad hair days too. However a good RM can usually, with a quiet word, sort things out. In my fairly wide international experience, I only know of two cases where ROs were expelled from IROA (which operates on a "2 strikes you're out" policy), for "conduct unbecoming", and only a few more cases on an NROI level. In the cases of which I'm personally aware, I believe the expulsions were justified, and I think IPSC is stronger because of the disciplinary actions taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted February 2, 2003 Author Share Posted February 2, 2003 Vince, Understood, and I'm not sure where even I stand on this issue. As I have told others, I'll never be a GM 'shooter' but do work hard to become a GM 'RO/CRO' (or higher). Since many times after working a big match, we hear complaints about the range staff, I thought I would post this to see if any suggestions popped up. Also, in the couple of NROI incidents that I am aware of, I fully agree that the RO's should not have been invited back. Just looking for some feedback to see if this is even a real issue for the competitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 It is an issue for competitors. I would LOVE to see a way for REAL complaints against officials to be handled. I also think matches should have a way for shooters to "grade" or "rate" the staff...I also think RO's would WANT to know how the shooters felt they performed, after all, the RO's are there for the competitors, right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Silly girl. RO's only go to matches for the free apres-match beer A competitor can indeed file a complaint against an RO, by seeing the RM or MD, and I can tell you that's exactly what I did at World Shoot XI in Brazil in 1996. I was a competitor and HK Team Manager, and one CRO who I won't identify by name, because he's still around (but hopefully a nicer guy now), was acting like a real jerk on the stage next to the one he was working. In fact, you can bet your bottom dollar that Mr. Enos remembers the same RO too, but for a different reason........ Actually, it's really funny to think of that incident now because, back then, I didn't know "who's who" in IPSC, so I just stormed back to the stats shed with smoke coming outta my ears and sparks flying outta my ass coz I was so pissed. As I approached the stats shack, I saw a bunch of important looking guys sitting at a table chatting. I stormed up to them, slammed by rulebook down hard on their table, and I went postal. In fact, I was really in their faces - and I mean up close & personal and ready for war! So, who were those guys? IPSC President Nick Alexakos IROA President Dave Arnold IROA VP Peter Glenn Match Director Luiz Frota Range Master Dino Evangelinos USPSA President Andy Hollar UKPSA RD Bob Chittleborough and two other guys who dived for cover under the table! Yes Sir. How to win friends and influence people. Of course that was way back then. Now I'm always sweet & cuddly .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted February 4, 2003 Author Share Posted February 4, 2003 Shooter Grrl, I agree. I 'personally' would like to know, as it is hard to improve without feedback. In fact, I make it a habit to always have a conversation with the RM at the conclusion of any major match for feedback..... positive or negative. This is a difficult call to make however, as most matches seem to be perpetually short staffed. Hmmmmm, maybe if more people volunteered to work, we could bring up the overall staff talent pool.... now that is an idea!! Vince, <<<RO's only go to matches for the free apres-match beer >>> Is this an IROA benefit?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Yes, in IROA we try to pamper our officials - consider the last World Shoot. The IROA guys had free accommodation, 3 square meals a day and a gratuity of US$500 each to offset their travel expenses, which in many cases involved +30 hours of travel. All they had to do was work from 0500hrs to 1900hrs, for nine (9) consecutive days, putting 800 competitors through 36 stages in an environment which felt like Mars and, at the same time, dodging the never-ending ricochets. The crazy part is that we had 75 applicants for 36 posts. If you can't tell, I'm very proud to be a member of IROA, which I consider to the the Marine Corps for IPSC. Hoo-yaa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted February 4, 2003 Author Share Posted February 4, 2003 Vince, Shhhhhhhhhh!! Quiet.... we might get tons of volunteers!! And to think, all I had to deal with last year in Barry, was a 100/100 every day (one hundred degrees and one hundred percent humidity), severe storms that destroyed most of the stages (fortunately on the last day)... and then there was Bend..... My application will be in shortly!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryRM 18 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Some one suggested I looked at this forum, they said it had lots of factual info on it and what do I find. Vince, claiming he is sweet and cuddly, arghhh, cuddly yes, sweet!! Hope you had a good time at the shot show, I will question Martyn under the bright light when I see him. If an RM is doing his job correctly, he will check frequently with his CRO's about any perceived problems. I normally try to cure any challenges that occur during the match. If any major problems cannot be solved at the time, then this should be put in the report to IROA, or brought to the attention of the NROI. The person concerned should be made aware of what the problems are, asap and what steps are being taken. This way both IROA and NROI's should be self policing. I have always found shooters to be robust in their opinions about ROs. Have fun. Barry UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 SHOT Show? There was a SHOT Show ?? Most of us spent all day (and night) Monday to Friday in rules, President's Council, IROA and various other meetings and it was an incredibly productive time. On Saturday, we had a USPSA membership drive at Hooters where we decided to form the USPSA "Hooters Shooters Team". We signed up one aspiring shooter (a lovely young lady who wants to shoot a Glock!), but I think we need to return to continue our drive .......... Work, work, work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted February 19, 2003 Author Share Posted February 19, 2003 VP, even though I am already over-extended.... I guess I can sign up to help recruiting of the Hooters Midwest team... in fact, we might be able to recruit Flex, and Speedy Seevers... but then again, I would not want to speak for them (actually, I'll let Jen and Shan speak for them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 On Saturday, we had a USPSA membership drive at Hooters where we decided to form the USPSA "Hooters Shooters Team". GGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR You're a dead man next time I see you PINTO!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Hoo Hoo I'm in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted February 19, 2003 Author Share Posted February 19, 2003 Shooter Grrl... all Vince is trying to do is help promote the shooting sports... to bring more people into the fold... how can you not support that?? Speedy Seevers, any ideas on 'Team' uniforms?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Oh that's real easy, just like Hooters. Child size cropped tees and child sized shorts maybe skirts? No cleats allowed, heels only. Safety last. Maybe change colors to red, white and blue for USPSA. I really don't care about colors but have definite ideas on uniform design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted February 19, 2003 Author Share Posted February 19, 2003 Well, after receiving a hot piece of 38 Super brass in my collar (that forever scarred my perfect body ) I am a little more sympathetic about clothing competitors wear, and where hot brass can land!!! In any case, you've got the uniform design, and I am only along to help 'where you may need me'...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 I learned to hoola-hoop at Hooters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 But, but, but Shooter Grrl - I'm just trying to do the right thing by the USPSA. A membership drive is a lot of hard work but I consider it my duty, as a member, to make the sacrifice for the USPSA. And I expect USPSA members to reciprocate for the HKPSA when they visit the "Bottoms Up" bar in Hong Kong ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSC CHIK1 Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 i believe there is a need for ROs to be reviewed. at the 2000 USPSA nationals i was in the womens' super squad. on one stage there was an ax stuck in a board between 2 black lines. the CRO was very specific that the ax remain in the board and that we take a proper "chopping" grip. the next morning, the mens' super squad shot that stage with the ax standing on end and were allowed to "hold" the ax by placing finger tips on the end of the ax. when several of us protested the change in start postition we were told to leave, by the very same CRO who admonished us to assume the "correct" starting postition. this CRO was TOTALLY in awe of the super squad and ignored the printed range instructions. and i DID let the MD know about it. i was told he would NOT be invited to the nationals as an RO again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome Poiret Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Vince, I'm in ! You've just found your French Section Coordinator I'm sending you an Email: I'll be in HK first week of March and must/need/want to check your bar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Beverley Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 It has to be said that Vince's personal sacrifice on this recruitment drive is above and beyond the call of duty. It must have been hard for him! Actually I don't know where he got the energy from, he should have been wasted after the committee meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMD Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 *** On Saturday, we had a USPSA membership drive at Hooters where we decided to form the USPSA "Hooters Shooters Team". We signed up one aspiring shooter (a lovely young lady who wants to shoot a Glock!), but I think we need to return to continue our drive ... *** It is incumbent on each of us to spread the good word, educate and recruit without regard for age or gender. In hostile political times engaging the undecided and inexperienced is an ethical and moral imperative. I can confirm Vince was a perfect gentleman and acted in his well-known humble and selfless manner. The lady appeared impressed with his sincerity. The next step is to secure team sponsorship from the franchise owner and interview possible recruits. I'm told a committee is forming and sub-committee assignments; training and uniform, are filling fast. Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Neil, Yes, I can confirm it was indeed hard, very hard, for me in view of the fact that, by then, I had been away from home for over a week. Actually I was getting rather concerned because Myro was starting to look good (yes, I'm a sick puppy). Joel, As you can see, I didn't mention your name earlier when commenting on my (our!) membership drive at Hooters, because I always try to protect the guilty. Anyway, as you are a resident of Florida, I trust you will make a follow-up visit to Hooters at Pointe Orlando, and do the right thing by the USPSA. BTW, there are a few more candidiates at Hooters on Kirkman Road too! Yeeee-haaaaaaaaaa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted February 19, 2003 Author Share Posted February 19, 2003 Quote: from IPSC CHIK1 on 5:58 am on Feb. 19, 2003 i DID let the MD know about it. i was told he would NOT be invited to the nationals as an RO again! IPSC CHIK1, well, it's unfortunate that you had that experience, but going to the MD (or RM) was the right decision. My gut tells me that there was probably more going on here than even you saw on the stage, if the CRO got punted. Then again, maybe this was not the first time something like this happened with him (or her). In any case, it sounds like the CRO blew it on this one, and there is no excuse for not presenting the same shooting challenge to each competitor. Super Squad, or brand new D class shooter..... consistency, is one of the responsibilities of the CRO. Anyway, based on your comments, it sounds like the system works okay..... you had a concern.... you went to the MD and explained the concern... and the MD dealt with it. Would you change anything here?? Do you think that there needs to be anything more formal than this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now