Pda’s And Software

[cottyw]

Guys,

Give me some suggestions on PDA’s and software.

Thanks,

Will

[Genghis]

I'm assuming you want a phone/PDA combo. I have toyed with PDA's since they first came out. I've had iPaq's, Zauruses, a Casio jobber from many years ago, and recently an Audiovox SMT5600 and Cingular 8125. I have not owned a Palm device.

You need to decide if you want a device that's primarily a phone or primarily a PDA. The SMT5600 is a small phone with no touchscreen or keyboard. It sync's with Outlook, can check e-mail, and includes a video camera. It takes a Mini SD card (mine is 512 MB). A year ago it was probably the most advanced phone/PDA you could get.

I have been pleasantly surprised at how useful a camera phone is. At first I didn't want one because I have a digital camera. But now I see it as a very useful feature.

The 8125 is primarily a PDA, with phone functions also. It has a slide-out keyboard, a touchscreen that is bigger than the 5600, a better camera, Outlook, and improved e-mail and Internet. It is on the large size, though. CNET's review said the phone reception was bad, but apparently they've improved it since then. One drawback is that it has no number pad - that pops up on the screen when you use the phone, which means you have to use the stylus. But you can't have everything.

There are variations on both these themes, such as Blackberries and Razr's, and the new Q.

I might be willing to get rid of my 5600, if you're interested.

PM me if you want more specific info on any of this.

Edited June 15, 2006 by Genghis

[mpthole]

Are you looking for ballistics software for a Palm?

I have one that is just called "Ballistics!" Its by Mike Finch, copyright 2002, 2003. His e-mail is: finchm@vt.edu

I'm sure I've got the install file around here somewhere... IM me if you want me to e-mail it to you.

[cottyw]

Boy did I open a can of worms. I am looking for suggestions on how to put together a good package for figuring out firing solutions for a .308 rifle. I know I need a Kestrel 2500 and I already have a Leica 1200. What else should I get? What about the 5.11 HRT watch?

Will

[cottyw]

Man,

I think I have been put on some kind of national “do not respond” registry.

Will

Edited June 16, 2006 by cottyw

[Dan Sierpina]

Man,

I think I have been put on some kind of national “do not respond” registry.

Will

Will,

I know what the Kestral is, and the Lieca too. What the heck is the 5.11 HRT watch???

[mpthole]

Man,

I think I have been put on some kind of national “do not respond” registry.

Will

I think its because noone really knows what kind of information you're looking for. My assumption was that, being in the MOR/Accuracy Rifle forum and a thread titled PDA's and software, that you're looking for a PDA platform to run some exterior ballistics software.

Then you bring up Kestrel's and Leica's...

Are you looking for something like HorusVision?

[cottyw]

Guys,

Thanks for letting me know that I wasn’t all alone in the universe.

I put the Kestrel and Lieca information in the post because they are needed to feed the inputs to the PDA for the ballistic software. I think what is going on is this stuff is in its infancy and there is not a lot of input to be had.

The 5.11 HRT watch is a watch that performs like a PDA and after you put in the range (Lieca) and the atmospheric conditions (Kestrel) gives you the correct firing solution for your given rifle.

Will

[blkbrd]

I am waiting for Zac to chime in an give us an education and some good links as I have the same questions.

The Horus stuff looks cool and I love to play on there websight, but from reading over at Snipershide there is some even better stuff out there.

Do some searches over at snipershide.com and I think you will find your answers. I an still using a data card.

Be sure to shoot your rifle over a chrono fof base readings then shoot out as far as you ever think you will use it to conferm true zero and find actual drops.

My rifle actually shoots better MOA past 300yd??? using 155 Scenar's.

[cottyw]

I called Zak and he said that he quit using a PDA after his broke. His suggestion was to print data cards for the different conditions. I have been hunting around Snipers hide also. I think the new question is: What is the best handheld ballistic program? Exbal or Atrag.

Will

[Headshot45]

Hi Will,

The best thing to do is a "Redundancy Program".....ok, a little esoteric of a description, but....

By all means get the Horus software. You can even get the reticle, just do NOT get their scopes....they are not the quality of a Leupold, SB, or USO....and they have the Horus reticle as an option. The 5.11 watch is great for the simple calculations. But I would use it as a back up to your hard copy. Run the software for your load, then print out your personally customized range card. I have 2 copies with me....one is mounted to my rifle, the other is worn on my left forearm. I find that it is easier to read from the forearm and have less movement then to roll your rifle around to read the stock.

I use my sniper rifles all of the time....they are not just range queens. I hunt coyote with them....it is good practice for ranging, measuring weather conditions, plotting your firing solution, and taking the shot...all without giving away your position to a predator that is looking HARD to find you....

Frank

p.s. Happy Fathers Day to everyone....my 9 yr old daughter and I are going fishing this afternoon

[EricW]

Cotty,

You can print traj. cards basically for free now. Head to this thread:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28841

...and try out JBM's ballistics program. The guy has dramatically improved it over the last few months. Once I get my dope down, I'm going to have trajectory cards for various density altitudes given to me by the Kestrel. So far, JBM's stuff looks like it's spot on out to 500. I'm shooting Sierra 175's, so the ballistic coefficient is well-known, which helps out a great deal.

My experience with PDA's over the years is that they are basically undependable. One drop and it's over. They are not designed for field use of any type. And by the time you go to the expense and effort of hardening one for outdoor use, you could have already had trajectory cards made up for -2000 to +15,000 feet, which will serve you well anywhere in North America.

My personal opinion is that the PDA software was an interim solution that solved an immediate problem. And tactically, I think you'll see professional riflemen abandoning consumer PDA's as they come up against more technologically sophisticated adversaries.

[cottyw]

I got a palm Zire and the Atrag software demo. It works awesome. It has made my fist time hit ratio out to 1000yard go way up.

Will

[Bronco]

cottyw, a little late but had a chance to compare the 5.11 watch with a pda running ATRAG at the CMG team match. The watch was a closer fit when you were able to incorporate some hard data (known dial up for specific range). It allowed us to hit the 1180 bonus target and was 2 moa different from the pda at that range. Seemed very easy to use and served the owner well.

[cottyw]

Bronco,

Which was faster?

Will

[mib2000]

Good suggestions above! Otherwise, and FWIW ...

I am running Exbal on the home PC, as well as on a fairly recently purchased Palm Tungsten C. The software works fine, and being able to go between similar software in the field on the PDA and at home on the PC (generating and printing out dope sheets) is good. This particular PDA is real slick but on the spendy side -- WiFi capable, got a mini-keyboard, even. I use it for a lot more than just shooting, natch.

My shooting partner (on this board, actually! perhaps he'll chime in) picked up an older, basic, B&W rechargable Palm Pilot -- I forget the model -- plus accessories, cheap from the pawn shop. It's dedicated just for shooting. He runs Horus ATRAG (and shoots a Horus H25 reticle) and we've both been impressed with that program. The inexpensive, used PDA is perfectly serviceable for the role. At the price, you could buy two -- one for backup.

A Kestrel 4000, laser rangefinder, Mil-Dot Master and databook are other pieces to help solve the puzzle.

Hope this helps. Happy shopping,

mib2000

Edited August 24, 2006 by mib2000

[bgary]

I use ExBal. The thing that tipped the balance for me away from Atrag was ExBal's ability to store and use sight-in data.

For example, let's say I rifle at sea-level, on a sunny 70-degree day. Then I next find myself at a range outside... oh, lets say Denver, 6000 feet and 45 degrees. Exbal can tell me how much my zero is different based on the different conditions. I couldn't do that with Atrag.

Bear in mind, too, that ExBal can produce output in inches, mils or MOA, so there's no problem using it with the H25 reticle.

$.02

[cottyw]

Guys,

What is the price on Exbal and do they let you download a free test version? Please give a good place to purchase/download.

Will

[bgary]

I got mine directly from the developer

http://www.perry-systems.com/

Don't know if there are other ways to buy it, but I can assert that he has been quite responsive and helpful in answering questions...

Bruce

[cottyw]

Does the palm version calculate for spin drift and earth movement?

Edited August 25, 2006 by cottyw

[George]

For example, let's say I rifle at sea-level, on a sunny 70-degree day. Then I next find myself at a range outside... oh, lets say Denver, 6000 feet and 45 degrees. Exbal can tell me how much my zero is different based on the different conditions. I couldn't do that with Atrag.

I use RSI Shooting Lab. It's not Palm compatable as I am aware, but it does do exactly what Bruce is getting at, but even better. i do a solid zero at 200 yards at most any elevation (sea level is where I live, but I have tested this from 2k and 4k starting points). I then enter the elevation, temperature and humidity data for where I am shooting at into Shooting Labs, crank out a drop table in clicks and then just put the dope on the scope.

I have garnered 1st round hits on 10-12" steel at up to 700 yards at up to 7k elevation after doing the sight in at sea level and at 2k.

I have in reverse, done a 4k elevation 200 yard zero, gone down to 1000 feet and gotten first round hits at up to 650+ yards on 8-10" steel by just applying the dope.

I always use the G5 drag model conversion utility built into Shooting Lab to change the mfgr's publiished G1 BC. The comeups are NOT "on the money" using G1 BC data with boat tail/VLD bullets.

A 100 to 200 yard sight-in at most any elevation from 5k down to sea level will provide pretty danged "on the money" comeup results at extreme distances as long as the dope you use is calculated using the elevation and temp/humidity conditions where you actually shoot. Oh yeah, using the "actual" correct BC for the projectile helps a lot too ;-)