No.343 Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 I've been told by a couple of guys who forgot more about shooting a shotgun than I know that my stock needs to be shortened. I had the stock catch on my shirt multiple times, so I believe it. The problem is that I have a synthetic Monte Carlo stock that is hollow. Is there a way to shorten it, or do I have to replace it? Also, how do you determine how long the stock should be? Thanks, Javier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 It's easy if you don't have to go down much. I was able to knock 3/8" off my 1100 stock with a dremel saw and clean it up on a belt sander. I was even able to fit the existing pad back on. Just keep on eye on the screw bosses and screw lengths. Go in small increments. 3/8" didn't seem like much, but it made a huge difference for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Go in small increments. 3/8" didn't seem like much, but it made a huge difference for me. A bit a thread drift, but when I changed from a A-2 to an A-1 stock (just 5/8") on my AR the difference was like day and night! Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Javier: It is easy and if we have to cut too much off you just epoxy wood dowels into the hollow stock and screw into those. Are you going to be out this weekend for the Oklahoma City Gun Club 3-gun matchy?? BTW Glen and I will be out on Wednesday if you can sneek out 2:00P.M. till who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gman 763 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I've been told by a couple of guys who forgot more about shooting a shotgun than I know that my stock needs to be shortened. I had the stock catch on my shirt multiple times, so I believe it. The problem is that I have a synthetic Monte Carlo stock that is hollow. Is there a way to shorten it, or do I have to replace it? Also, how do you determine how long the stock should be? Thanks, Javier What gun are you shooting? If it's a common one like an 1100, you should be able to find a replacement very easily. As to stock length? Well, an old rule of thumb is to take your shotgun in your gun arm & bend your arm at a 90 degree angle & have the butt pad nestled at your elbow so the stock runs straight along the inside of your arm with you grasping the pistol grip. Now see where your trigger finger naturally rests. If you are reaching to contact the trigger, your stock probably is too long. I just got my Beretta Extrema back from the 'smith & it was too long before it went away, stuck a youth stock on it & it feels like a little short but I can add spacers to compensate for that. An overly long stock will hamper you in a way you won't believe until you have it shortened. I grew up in the UK shooting shotguns & 'gunfit' is an art form over there. I can't think of a single routinely successful clay or wing shooter who hasn't had their gun fitted to them. Now if you shoot an odd ball gun, you can always slice a small amount off the stock, get some Brownells Accraglas & fill in the void left behind by the slice & after it has cured, simply pilot drill it for the butt pad screws. Voila! If you have to fill the stock, coat a small piece of steel tube big enough to access the stock bolt with release agent & insert it into the stock so you can screw the stock back on or you may have problems....... Equally as important as length of pull is drop & cast. Drop is how much the stock drops away to the butt pad in relation to the rib height. That's a simplified description as drop is also measured at the wrist (just behind where you hold the PG) & at the heel (buttpad). If the drop is too much, you end up lifting your head off the stock to see down the rib & if it's too high, you'll be getting slapped by the comb as well as probably shooting over the targets. Neither situation is ideal obviously. Most trap shooters & more than a few sporting clay shooters have the comb a little high so the gun patterns a bit high. I have my SC guns set up so I shoot 2/3 over the clay & 1/3 under; this way I can always keep the clay in view. (i.e. it appears to be balanced on the rib) Cast is how much the stock is 'bent' off to one side or the other. Cast 'on' means the stock is bent twards the shooter's cheek, cast 'off' is the opposite way. This also affects how you mount the gun as if you have too much cast 'on'or 'off', instead of looking straight down the rib, you're looking off to one side or the other. Bearing in mind that with a shotgun, your master eye is the rear sight, that's not a good thing! I know that 'Practical' shotguns mostly have 'ghost ring' sights but I respectfully submit that if you are searching for the sights to align them BEFORE you shoot, you are wasting time. Good gunfit is important & a good coach will know how to fit your gun to you. Hope this helped you out a little. For more info on cast you can read this article:cast on or off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Great post! Very informative (to a dweeb like me who knows nothing about it, but wanted to know). While we're on the topic of fitting, what are the drawbacks of stocks that are too short? I'm 6'6", with long arms and a long neck and I've always wondered if I needed stock extensions on my shotguns (pistol grip M1S90) and AR (standard A2 stock). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No.343 Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 gman, that was great information. thanks. Kurt, I plan on being there this weekend. I don't know if I will be able to take off the shackels early on Wednesday, but I'll try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gman 763 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Great post! Very informative (to a dweeb like me who knows nothing about it, but wanted to know).While we're on the topic of fitting, what are the drawbacks of stocks that are too short? I'm 6'6", with long arms and a long neck and I've always wondered if I needed stock extensions on my shotguns (pistol grip M1S90) and AR (standard A2 stock). You'll very probably need a stock extenstion BD. A stock that is a little too short isn't as big a hinderance as one that is overly long. I would suggest you do the 'rough' length of pull test as described above. See where your trigger finger arrives at. In your case, I would suspect that your palm would be about where the trigger guard is. Here's a very shakey pic to illustrate what I mean, (it's shakey cuz holding the gun with one hand & the camera with the other is a tad difficult!!) If you feel like you are 'crawling' up the stock of a long gun at any time, the stock is probably a touch long for you. A slightly shorter than usual stock is no real handicap & I know Matt Burkett & others prefer a slightly shorter than normal stock for 3 gun because of the more square stance they advocate. Most stocks are set up with the idea of you adopting the traditional 'weak foot forward, strong foot back' shooting stance. This works very well indeed in the clay or wingshooting world but for comp shooting, we need more stability. Ergo the squared off stance & hence, a slightly shorter stock length. You could always buy one of the slip on recoil pads available & see how that 'feels'. Gun fit is an instinctive thing, it will either feel right or not. It's easy for me to say that as I've been shooting shotguns for a very long time & had the benefit of coaching & a professional 'gunfitter' with a laser fitting system. I just know as soon as I pick a shotgun up if it 'fits' me or not. Whether I can maximise it's potential is an entirely different thing..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overkill Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 My first suggestion would be to round off the top edge of the rubber butt pad. Most factory ones are very square with just a small (1/8th inch perhaps) radius. Round it off to a larger radus.... 1/2 inch perhaps. That right there should make it less likely to snag when you're mounting the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 Javier, I know you've tried the electrical tape thing and moving your front hand back closer to the reciever. I have seen you shoot it and you are right, you do need at least 3/4" off. What I might suggest, since you are a tightwad and won't spend the $38 for a Junior stock, it to get with Kurt and/or Calvin and see how much you can take off before you get to the Monte part of the Monte Carlo Also, you might try to remove the stock pad and find a butt plate from an old 1100 (oh yah, you got one) and see if that works. The recoil in the stuff we are shooting is not that bad so you should be fine with a plate or nothing at all. You could take the pad off and dremel the edges of the stock to make it smooth if you are going to try it without a pad... Good luck today in the 3 gun match. Wish I was there instead of shooting airsoft and watching the rice grow.. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No.343 Posted May 21, 2006 Author Share Posted May 21, 2006 After trying to shoot prone and listening to Kurt's advice I am going to replace the stock. The Monte Carlo isn't going to work. I can't get my face low enough prone or kneeling. I am going to have to oil my wallet, open it and spend some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 (edited) After trying to shoot prone and listening to Kurt's advice I am going to replace the stock. The Monte Carlo isn't going to work. I can't get my face low enough prone or kneeling. I am going to have to oil my wallet, open it and spend some money. Hold on there. A new stock won't be any shorter and will need cutting anyway. And the Monte Carlo cheekpiece can usually be sanded down a fair bit before you hit air. Even if you do, you can fill in the boo boo with accraglas, resand, and you'll be golden. Sanding down a Monte Carlo cheekpiece is a standard trick for fitting shotguns. As for the rounding off the top of the pad, that is a good mod, but not a good substitute for a shorter stock. As to a stock being too short, it's only too short if your face is being adversely impacted during firing. If you want to spend money, put on a mid-rib bead if you don't already have one. It won't help you shoot better, but it's a great tool for checking your mount and knowing if your shotgun is fitted properly. FWIW.... Edited May 21, 2006 by EricW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 The shotgun in question has open slug sights, and no rib. The "monte" is about 2" too high for his facial structure and it is right at 1" too long. For the $38.00 or so for a "stock" synthetic or filling his old stock up with accra glass, the price would be a wash so I think we will go the replace route.....unless someone wants a nice synthetic Monte Carlo type stock for an 11-87/1100, we might be willing to swap KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 The shotgun in question has open slug sights, and no rib. The "monte" is about 2" too high for his facial structure and it is right at 1" too long. For the $38.00 or so for a "stock" synthetic or filling his old stock up with accra glass, the price would be a wash so I think we will go the replace route.....unless someone wants a nice synthetic Monte Carlo type stock for an 11-87/1100, we might be willing to swap KURT Never mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No.343 Posted May 22, 2006 Author Share Posted May 22, 2006 Thanks for your help Eric. I am going the new stock route. However, I think I might keep the old stock and try to do what you suggested since I've never done that kind of work. It will be a good one to try to learn on and if/when I mess up it will be no big deal. Thread drift on: Can anyone define what a road is for me? Thread drift off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Big Cheeks+Monte Carlo Stock=Mike wins!!! KEEP THE STOCK!!! See you crazy cats later this week.. Anyone need rice? Mike Kore' wa o kudasai.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No.343 Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 Big Cheeks+Monte Carlo Stock=Mike wins!!! KEEP THE STOCK!!! See you crazy cats later this week.. Anyone need rice? Mike Kore' wa o kudasai.. Now I know why you suggested that gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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