third_of_five Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Hey guys, I was at the range yesterday practicing my usual IPSC stuff with my 625. I noticed that when I pulled the trigger quickly the cylinder would skip. Also, I don't know if this is important but when the cylinder did skip, the firing pin didn't strike the primer. The hammer fell, but there would be absolutely NO MARK on primer. About a year ago, removed that "rebounding hammer block", that thing that prevents the hammer from making contact with the firing pin, in the event the hammer falls but the trigger isn't pulled. So I know it isn't that. Is my revolver doomed? Thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Greetings, ther are a couple of things you can check. First, has the gun had a trigger job? Some of the PPC 'smiths would lighten up the cylinder stop spring to facilitate a smooth trigger return. It works for slow PPC shooting, but not for high speed DA shooting. -Check to see if the sides of the cylinder stop are rounding over. They should be vertivcal and somewhat square to the dome. -Check to see if the cylinder stop slots on the cylinder are showing evidence of peening - Check the center pin hole in the frame for elongation. Harsh high speed closing of the cylinder can elongate the once circular hole. As the hole enlarges and becomes more oval. This can also cause the skipping and is a bit more serious of an issue. Let us know what you find. ~Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sahlberg Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 This is commonly called "short stroking" where you pulled the trigger 90% of the pull, activating the cylinder and almost the firing pin but not the 100% necessary to engage the firing pin to the primer. Take your gun and slap the hammer on single action, you will find that even though the hammer falls the "safety bar" will block the firing pin. Take FULL stokes with the trigger following 100% through and you will never "short stroke. BTW, this is very common for fast bottomfeeder shooters as they do own guns that are not as reliable as revolvers and try to make it sound like it is the gun and not them :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
third_of_five Posted April 9, 2006 Author Share Posted April 9, 2006 Thanks for the replies. I can say it isn't short stroking. A few hours ago, I was messing around with the revolver and put a black mark with a magic marker on the side of the cylinder. I pulled the trigger, and held it back to the rear. I can actually "see" the cylinder skip. Obviously, I can't see everything that is going on becuase it all happens so fast, but the lock-up of the cylinder takes longer and turns a little more than normal. As for any trigger work, only some garage gunsmithing, but I've never touched the cylinder stop or the cs spring. The cylinder has had a lot of peening and frequently I remove the peened metal with an exacto knife or a file. The hole in the frame, thankfully, is still circular. However an odd occurrence I noticed when I marked the cylinder. The cylinder would skip over the same chambers, and not randomly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPM8shot Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 third_of_five, Randy is correct. If you are not short stroking the trigger then the cylinder stop is givng you trouble. My 625-3 was doing exactly what you describe. I bought the gun second hand and it appeared to have a bunch of race stuff done to it. I have since trashed every piece and frame and started over with stock parts. I located the offending chamber then noticed that the cylinder would indeed skip if I pulled the trigger hard and fast. What I found was my cylinder stop was starting to round off(due to over polishing) and the cylinder stop window had some metal on the inside of the frame that was causing the stop to not fully extend at times. (How that happened I don't know). The stop would actually get hung up at times. I also found a very much shortened cylinder stop spring (very little tension) Note: Some cylinder detents are a bit shallower than others also. This makes the cylinder stop spring tension crucial. Use only a stock unaltered spring. I cleaned up the window and installed a new cylinder stop spring and cylinder stop. Viola!! no more problem. You may have to fit the new cylinder stop to the gun but you should only need minor adjustments. Hope this helps Renny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
third_of_five Posted April 9, 2006 Author Share Posted April 9, 2006 (edited) I glad it wasn't the cylinder or the ejector star, and yes Renny, I am experiancing a "rounding" on the cylinder stop. It isn't a "rounding" so much as it is a "wearing away" from contact with the cylinder. I'm gonna have to do some shopping and get this girl ready for Summer Blast. ToF Edited April 9, 2006 by third_of_five Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Greetings, ther are a couple of things you can check. First, has the gun had a trigger job? Some of the PPC 'smiths would lighten up the cylinder stop spring to facilitate a smooth trigger return. It works for slow PPC shooting, but not for high speed DA shooting.-Check to see if the sides of the cylinder stop are rounding over. They should be vertivcal and somewhat square to the dome. -Check to see if the cylinder stop slots on the cylinder are showing evidence of peening - Check the center pin hole in the frame for elongation. Harsh high speed closing of the cylinder can elongate the once circular hole. As the hole enlarges and becomes more oval. This can also cause the skipping and is a bit more serious of an issue. Let us know what you find. ~Randy Now who do we know that might've been closing his cylinder too harshly, and needed a whole new gun to fix his skipping issue... Seriously though, Randy knows his bizness. ToF...I hope you get it figured out by the BLAST...there are a lot of us wheelgunners that want you competing when we get there!!! Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 The cylinder has had a lot of peening and frequently I remove the peened metal with an exacto knife or a file. ///. The cylinder would skip over the same chambers, and not randomly. That's the problem. You may be able to fix it by putting in a new stop and spring (maybe not). In general, don't cut away the peened metal, it's better to push it back down or leave it alone and use it as a "backstop" for the cylinder stop to engage. Rounding that edge will make the stop fail to lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtwilliams Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Hello, My 625 was doing the same thing. S&W finely fixed it the third time I sent it back to them. They replaced the cylinder and cylinder latch before it started working correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Hello,My 625 was doing the same thing. S&W finely fixed it the third time I sent it back to them. They replaced the cylinder and cylinder latch before it started working correctly. Ah yes, Skip Chambers paid me a visit this weekend too. After about 300 rounds without cleaning I started getting some "clicks" with some off-center primer hits. I'll clean things up and see if I need to take a little more off of my oversized cylinder stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Hello,My 625 was doing the same thing. S&W finely fixed it the third time I sent it back to them. They replaced the cylinder and cylinder latch before it started working correctly. Is this the J. Williams from Wisconsin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdgun Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 I had the same happen to my PC625, The culpret was the cylinder stop. I had it changed out and had not had a problem since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Greetings, ther are a couple of things you can check. First, has the gun had a trigger job? Some of the PPC 'smiths would lighten up the cylinder stop spring to facilitate a smooth trigger return. It works for slow PPC shooting, but not for high speed DA shooting. -Check to see if the sides of the cylinder stop are rounding over. They should be vertivcal and somewhat square to the dome. -Check to see if the cylinder stop slots on the cylinder are showing evidence of peening - Check the center pin hole in the frame for elongation. Harsh high speed closing of the cylinder can elongate the once circular hole. As the hole enlarges and becomes more oval. This can also cause the skipping and is a bit more serious of an issue. Let us know what you find. ~Randy Now who do we know that might've been closing his cylinder too harshly, and needed a whole new gun to fix his skipping issue... Seriously though, Randy knows his bizness. ToF...I hope you get it figured out by the BLAST...there are a lot of us wheelgunners that want you competing when we get there!!! Jeff Hmmm...who could it be...? There are a couple of things that can be done to prolong the life of your present cylinder. You can deepen the entry relief cut (lead-in) to the c-stop slots by about .005" That will allow a new c-stop to drop deeper into the slot. The cylinder stop hits the impact surface of the slot before it snaps up into full depth, so the modification will yield a bit more service life out of the current cylinder. Also check the crane alignment. If the crane is causing the center pin to stem high, it will accelerate the damage to the cylinder- every little bit of correction helps. ~Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Hello, My 625 was doing the same thing. S&W finely fixed it the third time I sent it back to them. They replaced the cylinder and cylinder latch before it started working correctly. Ah yes, Skip Chambers paid me a visit this weekend too. After about 300 rounds without cleaning I started getting some "clicks" with some off-center primer hits. I'll clean things up and see if I need to take a little more off of my oversized cylinder stop. Was this your gun with the retrofitted Ti cylinder, Walt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Hello, My 625 was doing the same thing. S&W finely fixed it the third time I sent it back to them. They replaced the cylinder and cylinder latch before it started working correctly. Ah yes, Skip Chambers paid me a visit this weekend too. After about 300 rounds without cleaning I started getting some "clicks" with some off-center primer hits. I'll clean things up and see if I need to take a little more off of my oversized cylinder stop. Was this your gun with the retrofitted Ti cylinder, Walt? Yes, one of them. I finished the match with the other one. I was too pooped to look it over last night, so I'll try to get it cleaned up and evaluated this evening. I had left the oversized stop pretty tight, maybe too tight for extended runs between cleanings. Of course, this was the 12th stage in two days, so that's definately a worst-case scenario. It'll run slow, but we had some hoser stages I was really pushing for speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Word of caution on the oversized cylinder stops- they will accelerate the peening of the cylinder stop slots for high speed DA shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Hello, My 625 was doing the same thing. S&W finely fixed it the third time I sent it back to them. They replaced the cylinder and cylinder latch before it started working correctly. Ah yes, Skip Chambers paid me a visit this weekend too. After about 300 rounds without cleaning I started getting some "clicks" with some off-center primer hits. I'll clean things up and see if I need to take a little more off of my oversized cylinder stop. Was this your gun with the retrofitted Ti cylinder, Walt? Yes, one of them. I finished the match with the other one. I was too pooped to look it over last night, so I'll try to get it cleaned up and evaluated this evening. I had left the oversized stop pretty tight, maybe too tight for extended runs between cleanings. Of course, this was the 12th stage in two days, so that's definately a worst-case scenario. It'll run slow, but we had some hoser stages I was really pushing for speed. Hey Walt, How come it did not do this until after you thumped up on me!! I did not shoot bad but was thumped up on me anyway. Don't you feel sorry for old fellars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
third_of_five Posted April 11, 2006 Author Share Posted April 11, 2006 Thanks Randy. I am curious however, what tool would be used to deepen the cylinder stop slots? Would it require a Dremmel tool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Word of caution on the oversized cylinder stops- they will accelerate the peening of the cylinder stop slots for high speed DA shooting. How does this happen? Hello, My 625 was doing the same thing. S&W finely fixed it the third time I sent it back to them. They replaced the cylinder and cylinder latch before it started working correctly. Ah yes, Skip Chambers paid me a visit this weekend too. After about 300 rounds without cleaning I started getting some "clicks" with some off-center primer hits. I'll clean things up and see if I need to take a little more off of my oversized cylinder stop. Was this your gun with the retrofitted Ti cylinder, Walt? Yes, one of them. I finished the match with the other one. I was too pooped to look it over last night, so I'll try to get it cleaned up and evaluated this evening. I had left the oversized stop pretty tight, maybe too tight for extended runs between cleanings. Of course, this was the 12th stage in two days, so that's definately a worst-case scenario. It'll run slow, but we had some hoser stages I was really pushing for speed. Hey Walt, How come it did not do this until after you thumped up on me!! I did not shoot bad but was thumped up on me anyway. Don't you feel sorry for old fellars? Hey, I've got so many "thump" marks from you I was thinking of changing my name to Thumpy. Besides, It may have given a signal once or twice. Remember the five times I shot at the last target on the classifier? I was pretty sure I had short-stroked, but maybe not.. Old fellar my my backside. What was that, the first time I ever beat you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Word of caution on the oversized cylinder stops- they will accelerate the peening of the cylinder stop slots for high speed DA shooting. I had never heard that before. The "oversize" is just a few thou wider, it's not taller or angled on the sides. The wider stop is used to fill the larger frame slot which occurs as the stop peens the frame edge over time, as well as the wider cylinder notch which also grows wider with use. I'd never heard of a wider stop "peening" any harder than a regular one because the edge that hits the cylinder notch is the same size. Is there a reason for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtwilliams Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Hello, My 625 was doing the same thing. S&W finely fixed it the third time I sent it back to them. They replaced the cylinder and cylinder latch before it started working correctly. Is this the J. Williams from Wisconsin? Sorry, no. I'm the J Williams from Iowa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Hello, My 625 was doing the same thing. S&W finely fixed it the third time I sent it back to them. They replaced the cylinder and cylinder latch before it started working correctly. Is this the J. Williams from Wisconsin? Sorry, no. I'm the J Williams from Iowa. Oh. Well...Welcome to the forums anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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