more USPSA Production debate

[Gary Stevens]

Point taken. By the way my XD will not only run mouse farts, it will run mouse smellys, you know the kind that just slip out, very well thank you.

Gary

Edited April 14, 2006 by Gary Stevens

[GeorgeInNePa]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see what the big problem is. If it's the slide lightning issue, do you really think it would cost more to have a gunsmith or a machineist carve out an ounce or two than it would to have a gunsmith low melt a Bomar in?

Let's make the 5lb trigger rule to make some shooters happy. Glocks are just about there, after paying Charlie for my trigger job I can see what needs to be slicked up. What will it cost to make a S&W better? Sig? CZ? More than my home job Glock.

IDPA SSP and USPSA Production are almost the same. In fact many crossover shooters use the exact same rig and gun. Some just change holsters.

The start up costs are just about the same. As the shooter gets better he/she may decide to make changes/spend more money. If you are seriously concerned about a $100 or 2 in mods, maybe practical shooting isn't for you.

Edited April 14, 2006 by GeorgeInNePa

[MikeFoley]

The point isn't about keeping up or spending money IMO. We are still having trouble recruiting or keeping otherwise intelligent gun owners. These people can afford to play. They just get met with an impression about keeping up a fantasy modification race that is meaningless to truly practical firearms. They want to run stock guns that are not unlike what they use for protection. I personally am not one of them. I am wholly involved in the equipment race. My rifle has mods I would avoid like the plague if it were needed for some purpose other than competition. My pistol is far from practical, heck it is actually heavy and cumbersome and has the grip safety disabled. Even the striker spring in my production gun is far lighter than I use in my carry guns. So even though I am not one of them, I see them every day in my shop, and every weekend at the range. They are attorneys, IT professionals, surgeons, cops, etc. They are the crowd from which it is easiest for us to recruit. Once we get them involved, then we can introduce them to the race, but there are way more stock Glocks and 1911s in the world that need a place a play.

Edited April 15, 2006 by fomeister

[RIIID]

A low mount Bo-mar on an XD weighs the same as the stock slide and sights. Nothing gained nothing lost, they just look good and they are adjustable. I was asked earlier this year by a match director if a Glock gun being shot was legal. A bo-mar was placed on top of the slide and the front sight was really tall. The Bo-mar was hanging off the back of the slide by more than a half of an inch. Increased sight radius big plus on a 34/35 heck even a 17 and it's legal, just a pain making sure the front sight clears the holster.

Why now after five years there is a problem with Production, I started shooting Production in 2003 and yes there was a problem then. The rules infractions have been going down but they are still there. If you know what to look for they stand out like a sore thumb. The same things brought up here have been talked about on the Production super squad for the last three years. For every magical solution to help stop the perceived arms race there are pros and cons. If and when the BOD can figure out what Production IS (with definition), then a set of rules can be enacted. Hopefully they will be bullet proof and black and white for many years.

If you have a problem with extended mag releases, trigger jobs, lightened slides, sight installs, mag wells, hammers, grip tape ............... Tell it to the BOD members again and again (sorry BOD members) maybe they can get this problem solved with your input. The goal this year by the Production crowd should be to have more Production shooters than Open shooters at the Nationals. Maybe then Production will get recognized as a force to be acknowledged and feared.

I got to go get my gear ready for my turkey safari tomorrow.

Rich

[sturmruger]

This is going to be my 3rd year shooting in the production division. I shot my first year with a from the factory XD40. After shooting that XD for a whole summer I realized that I really wanted a 9mm and I wanted to have some trigger work done so I bought a brand new 9mm and had it sent over to Rich to iron out some of the stuff that I wanted better. My first year was not a waste!! I was a D shooter who was still learning A LOT. I spent $400 for my gun and was plenty competitive against the other guys who were shooting their first year. That is the key here, if you can be competitive against the new people then you really have nothing to worry about.

My second year I spent close to $1000 getting my XD just as tricked out as possible. Other then the new fiber front site nothing I had done instantly made me a contender. Anyone that I talk to I always tell them that they can bring whatever gun they have. So far I have recruited 1 new shooter which is below my goal of 1 a year, but it is a good start. All this talk about Production being a stock division is still the truth. XD and Glocks are great guns that dominate the production division because they are all ready commercially a success. Some guy with a stock Glock is probably not going to beat me at a match, but not because I am using a tricked out XD, hopefully I will wax him because this is my third year shooting IPSC and I have a lot more experience. Production is where people should start out in my opinion it is a great division that helps people to work on their fundamentals such as A hits, reloads, and good draw times.

[bufit323]

That is the key here, if you can be competitive against the new people then you really have nothing to worry about.

Some guy with a stock Glock is probably not going to beat me at a match, but not because I am using a tricked out XD, hopefully I will wax him because this is my third year shooting IPSC and I have a lot more experience.

Production is where people should start out in my opinion it is a great division that helps people to work on their fundamentals such as A hits, reloads, and good draw times.

I could not agree more, I shot for a year with my USP45. There was no way I was going to beat guys shooting G34s, unless they were newbies like me, then I had just as much a shot as they did.

After I started to observe the better shooters, I saw that they were all shooting 9mm, I did some research and I bought a 226 and had it done up by Bruce Gray. It cost about $1,000 all together. Now I am competing with the B and sometimes the A shooters.

My point is, if you own a semi auto pistol, you can be VERY happy in production for a long time. Eventually you will want to change guns to be more competitive. I do not think that a bunch of rules will change this.

Me for instance, I started with a USP in 45. A 9mm would have been better, but I shot what I owned. A lower bore axis gun would have been better but I shot what I brought. In the beginning, I was able to learn the game, safe practice, and compete with people on my level. These things will effect new shooters, even if the new rules required guns that come right from the box.

YMMV

Edited April 15, 2006 by bufit323

[sturmruger]

bufit323 you know what they say great minds think a like.