Discovered Why The 'scoop Draw' Ain't So Hot...

[boo radley]

Lately, I've gotten more and more confidence in what could be called a "scoop" draw -- ripping my gun out of the CR-Speed holster in a single motion, with hooked, or scooped, fingers. Feels awesome fast. Rip - present. Two movements.

I believe the conventional wisdom here, ranged from "this draw sucks," to "it can be one of several useful draws..." But I closed my mind, and continued with it.

I think I've discovered why it sucks -- first, it only works when the hands are relaxed, at sides. Maybe...50% of starts at *most*? Second, on about two of six stages on average, I'm locked into the gun with a less-than-perfect grip, when I start shooting. Sometimes a downright terrible grip. Not cool.

Took a shooting lesson today (not for this issue, but we got working on this issue, PDQ), and learned why a more conventional draw -- driving the hand onto the backstrap -- is better, and how even if you're tense or nervous, it just makes the grip *better*. Good stuff.

Just hate having to undo all those repetitive movements burned into the subconscious.

Seems to take weeks, minimum.

[XRe]

Not to mention the risk of drawing and not be gripping the gun at all.... and it flying downrange, and you going home....

[John Kane]

Dave's right. I practiced it a lot dry fire and never had a problem and then at the match this weekend I almost lost it. When I was done shooting one of my squad members came up to me and said, "nice catch!"

I'm going back to something more secure.

[38superman]

What you describe as a "scoop" draw sounds very much like the way I have always done it.

From a Ghost holster with hands at side I slide my fingers up just behind the holster.

Just as the fingers touch the grip I wrap the web of my hand around the back strap.

Once the gun clears the holster, I release the safety with my thumb as the gun comes up into the two hand grip.

All this in one smooth motion.

I have never had a problem with this and have never come close to losing my grip on the gun.

I do this because it is what has always felt natural to me.

I used to blow the grip a bit from time to time but that really doesn't happen any more.

I can't imagine starting with hands at side and bring your hand up above the gun, reversing direction to drive down onto the back strap and reversing direction again to draw the gun.

Am I missing something?

Tls

Edited April 3, 2006 by tlshores

[Bigbadaboom]

I did the "Snatch" draw (What Dirtypool40 and I call it) when I was using the CRSpeed holster but was forced to change it when I bought the Blade-Tech DOH (Because I'm giving the CR to my Son for his open gun). I have found that since changing holsters and therefore draw techniques my grip is more consistant and my first shots are a lot more often "A"'s or first hits on steel.

[Loves2Shoot]

What you describe as a "scoop" draw sounds very much like the way I have always done it.

From a Ghost holster with hands at side I slide my fingers up just behind the holster.

Just as the fingers touch the grip I wrap the web of my hand around the back strap.

Once the gun clears the holster, I release the safety with my thumb as the gun comes up into the two hand grip.

All this in one smooth motion.

I have never had a problem with this and have never come close to losing my grip on the gun.

I do this because it is what has always felt natural to me.

I used to blow the grip a bit from time to time but that really doesn't happen any more.

I can't imagine starting with hands at side and bring your hand up above the gun, reversing direction to drive down onto the back strap and reversing direction again to draw the gun.

Am I missing something?

Tls

I don't think so.

Most people I've seen that have problem with the draw you descibed don't use the thumb to lock the gun in their hand. Fingers contact gun, web of hand over, thumb locking the beavertail/frame. Hand meet thumb goes down and safety comes off.

I don't see how you could drop a gun if you do it correctly.

Edited April 3, 2006 by Loves2Shoot

[AlamoShooter]

A scoop/ swoop can be firm ...IF like Loves To Shoot says, = use your thumb to trap the gun. the gun lift in to the thumb trap. I am not (Fast) but I do get a good grip, One time at... Band Camp.. No realy at Steel Challenge the old Gost rig went into lock down on the draw, my grip was set and I ended up with an Atomic Wedgy from my pants coming up to my neck. = the gun and my hand and the belt and holster all stayed in one unit.

[PaperHater]

Then there's the toss your gun downrange factor. Also a bad thing.

[DKOL]

I did the "Snatch" draw (What Dirtypool40 and I call it) when I was using the CRSpeed holster but was forced to change it when I bought the Blade-Tech DOH (Because I'm giving the CR to my Son for his open gun). I have found that since changing holsters and therefore draw techniques my grip is more consistant and my first shots are a lot more often "A"'s or first hits on steel.

I also went over to the Kydex (Blade Tech DOH) this winter because we were shooting a lot of 3 gun and I've decided to stick with it. I feel like it forces me to do a fundamentally better draw and I can draw it just about as fast as I can with a race holster.

[Z-man]

I tried the "scoop draw" last night just out of curiousity (from a Bladetech DOH). It seems as though it might be a bit faster (at least in theory) so long as you get a perfect grip on the gun. It replaces the hand-up-over-the-holster-and-down motion with hand-up-gun-too. However, I think it'd be pretty hard to do consistenly and I found that I was slowing down out of fear that I'd drop the gun. With my regular method I can really explode down and up without worrying about dropping the gun. Interesting stuff.

[Flexmoney]

You don't have to come up or down on th gun, you can come in from the side.

[blackdragon]

Well! Since we don't draw from our holsters anymore, Who cares?

Ivan

[boo radley]

I tried the "scoop draw" last night just out of curiousity (from a Bladetech DOH). It seems as though it might be a bit faster (at least in theory) so long as you get a perfect grip on the gun. It replaces the hand-up-over-the-holster-and-down motion with hand-up-gun-too. However, I think it'd be pretty hard to do consistenly and I found that I was slowing down out of fear that I'd drop the gun. With my regular method I can really explode down and up without worrying about dropping the gun. Interesting stuff.

The security of the scoop draw, with a little practice, didn't really bother me. In fact, I tried intentionally to rip it out of the holster with my index and ring fingers (primarily what I use for the 'scoop') hitting the end of the butt, and it took a little work to lose the gun.

But the big problem for me, was the gun is basically weightless when getting a grip, since it's in the air, and in motion. I also found myself getting the weak hand onto the gun late and high -- in the middle of the extension to the target, if that makes sense....And, finally, it was hard to draw in the same way when I was shooting my 1911 out of a DOH. <shrug>

I'm starting to get comfortable with this other draw I've been taught. It's basically what Brian has in his book. 3 motions -- 1, strong hand hits grip (I'm coming in from the side, but slightly high), while weak hand slaps the belly. 2, gun comes out and hands immediately join. 3. Extend while prepping. <shrug> It's finally starting to feel better, after a few weeks, but I have a long way to go....

[XRe]

It's finally starting to feel better, after a few weeks, but I have a long way to go....

The advantage to this is that you can get on the gun the exact same way from any angle, every time... No herky-jerky, no up-and-down, and good security... At least, that's why I use it... YMMV

[Micah]

I use the "snatch" only when the pistol needs to be immediately transfered to my weak hand. Other than that, I agree with the numerous other chaps that believe that a bad grip on the pistol is a very bad start indeed!