Reloading / Slidelock...

[Pittbug]

I've watched various videos on reloads and have a silly question. When I watch travis and jake reloading, it doesn't look like they're at slidelock. But if they are, it doesn't look as if they are hitting the slide release before they start shooting again. Or perhaps they are just so fast that it's all a blur on the video.

So this got me thinking. I just started shooting CDP in IDPA and I usually start with 8+1, so instead of shooting until slidelock, what if I just shoot 8 rounds, I'd still have a round chambered, then do a reload? I think this way I wouldn't need to hit the slide release and I would probably shave off a considerable amount of time. Since the falling mag would actually be empty, it isn't a reload with retention right?

thanks

[shred]

Jake and Travis are shooting USPSA/IPSC, the rules of which don't care if there are rounds in the magazine when it drops, so there is a round in the chamber in their cases (a "speed reload")

IDPA frowns on mag-empty-chamber-loaded reloads for their own reasons.

[HSMITH]

I tried that in IDPA and got dinged with a 'failure to do right' or some such thing because I wasn't behind cover when I dropped the empty mag and inserted a fresh mag. I have only shot IDPA a couple times and do not understand the rules, I don't want to tell you what you can and can't do either. Just be sure to ask around and talk to the more experienced shooters before bringing out a new idea in a match, it might be costly if you don't.

[Gun Geek]

I tried that in IDPA and got dinged with a 'failure to do right' or some such thing because I wasn't behind cover when I dropped the empty mag and inserted a fresh mag. I have only shot IDPA a couple times and do not understand the rules, I don't want to tell you what you can and can't do either. Just be sure to ask around and talk to the more experienced shooters before bringing out a new idea in a match, it might be costly if you don't.

Smith:

2 Procedurals would have been more correct - must reload behind cover, and NO speed reloads allowed at all. An FTDR would be more correct if you seemed to insist on continually breaking the rules

Pitt:

What you describe is a speed reload (even if the mag is empty) and is verboten in IDPA. Don't do it. You will earn a PE (3s), and maybe an FTDR (20s). Anytime you reload with the slide in battery, you must do a tac or RWR. Only exception is if you are clearing a malfunction.

The idea is that you are in a gun fight and 1) won't be counting rounds so you will shoot until slide lock, and 2) if there is a break in the action, you will reload the gun and not leave mags/ammo laying around since they might be used against you or you may need them later.

You may or may not agree, them's the rules, and that's why them's the rules.

Edited March 28, 2006 by Gun Geek

[Pittbug]

Gun Geek: Thanks for explaining. At least everyone's in the same boat then. I just didn't want to be left behind doing slidelock reloads when I may have been able to make them faster.

[9x21]

I'm sure glad I shoot USPSA open!

Once I start,

the only time my gun is out of bullets is when the RO tells me to unload & show clear.......

[SteveZ]

The idea is that you are in a gun fight and 1) won't be counting rounds so you will shoot until slide lock

Hmmmm. Sidebar question...does anyone count rounds in competition shooting? I sure don't ... at least not consciously....but I wouldn't be surprised if my subconscious is keeping count. I shoot L10 ... and there have been times where my game plan has gone to crap...yet a round or two before I would go empty...I'll just "magically" pull off a reload...almost automatically without thinking about it...and I sure wasn't counting rounds up to that point.

[shred]

With experience, you can feel the weight difference between full and nearly-empty magazines while you're shooting (and get that wonderful "ah, crap.. I just pulled a nearly empty mag off my belt for this reload" feeling). With a little more experience, you can feel the difference from feeding the last round off the magazine... More easily you can feel the non-round feed if your gun doesn't lock back and the mag is empty.

It's not something you want to rely on, but it's eerie how your subconscious can tell you 'that was the last round' when you haven't been keeping track.

[XRe]

Based on my plan, I can real-time predict slide lock, if I end up taking extra shots. I don't stand and count shots, but I know how many extras I've taken in between reloads, and have been known to reload the gun before slide lock (or be reloading immediately after the last shot, but before seeing the gun at lock)... Just part of intuiting what's going on and all...

[Gun Geek]

I agree with shred and Dave - more of a "feel" situation, especially when I'm shooting 7's, 8's or 10's. Don't know if it weight or something else, but I usually know ehn the last round is in the gun.

When I shoot more (i.e. Glock 17) I don't do so well knowing where the end is.

Steve: A touch of Zen...

[Crusher]

It's not something you want to rely on, but it's eerie how your subconscious can tell you 'that was the last round' when you haven't been keeping track.

From the weight of the gun (as you run through the ammo in the magazine) many can tell by feel what is left in the magazine and normally most will plan a reload in their mind at some point/location during the stage, when they hit that point/location they will reload. However if something unplaned happens to change their gameplan they can often adapt with little conscious thought.

The more you shoot, the more you become "aware" of what is happening, at some point your actions require less conscious thought and that's when it becomes "eerie".

As far as letting a gun go "dry" in USPSA shooting, it is not something you want to have happen, it costs too much time and the game is about "points per second".

[Flyin40]

I disable my slide lock on my limited and open guns. I never have the slide lock back but in IDPA thats another story.

As far as counting rounds I don't actually count rounds while shooting. I count before hand so I know where to reload. Based on how many rounds I have and how many shots I'm required to make before the reload allows me to gauge where I'm at.

Heres and example, The course is 24 rounds, my open gun holds 26. If I have more than 2 makeup shots I'll have to reload. In limited 10 I figured out arrays and reloads the same way. I would shoot the same 24 rd course in arrays. First array maybe 8 shots reload while moving to the next array, repeat.

Flyin40

[AikiDale]

The idea is that you are in a gun fight and 1) won't be counting rounds so you will shoot until slide lock, and 2) if there is a break in the action, you will reload the gun and not leave mags/ammo laying around since they might be used against you or you may need them later.

You may or may not agree, them's the rules, and that's why them's the rules.

I always get a chuckle from that rule. Before I found USPSA my training was from the old school Col. Cooper crowd who made you feel like a complete failure if you allowed your weapon to run dry during a drill. Just because untrained people did it in real life did not make it acceptable. These trainers thought it a bad habit with no life redeaming value which should be trained out of the novice shooter. It's my understanding one purchased a case of beer for the class if one went to slide lock unintentionally at Gunsite.

But " them's the rules, and that's why them's the rules."