Saiga

[Loves2Shoot]

What are the pros and cons? I am thinking about one for an open shotgun.

Edited February 28, 2006 by Loves2Shoot

[Liota]

20 guage weighs less

Seems to recoil less

10-round factory magazines.

[Loves2Shoot]

Thanks! Does it dump plates and poppers ok? I've seen very few 20's in the few matches I've been to.

[L9X25]

L2S,

I shoot a 20ga 1100 and love it. They are lighter, recoil much less, and I shoot them faster.

The downside is that you usually have to shoot 1 choke tighter than a comparable 12ga to have the same shot density so you suffer with a smaller pattern. I shoot open and have a holosight on my shotgun so being slightly more careful on the sight picture is not a problem. Before getting this gun, I shot a 12ga Benelli Practical and a shorter 12ga Benelli along with a 12 ga 1100. After the first match with the 20, it was not even a question which one I would shoot in the future.

I am not a range lawyer but hear grumbling that they might change the rules as they pertain to 20 ga. I would certainly investigate that before making a purchase. Also check with the other ruling bodies that hold matches you might want to attend and see how they feel about the 20 too. For what I know, they might legislate the 20 out of 3-gun.

If they are NOT an advantage (as most of the 12ga people claim) I do not see why anyone would need to outlaw them. I personally feel that they are more fun to shoot and I shoot them faster ... and think of the poor Juniors (the future of our sport!) ... they need the opportunity to compete!

Leo

Edited February 28, 2006 by L9X25

[Loves2Shoot]

Thanks! I was pondering that this morning with the way the rules change all the time. The 10 vs 8 rounds seems like it might be a bigger deal than in a pistol depending on how long it takes to change a mag. If I went with the 20 my gut tells me they might ban it or make it minor somehow I like the idea of cheap and mags and maybe even a Kobra sight (I had one once and they are cool.)

[diehli]

Regarding capacity: http://www.saigasolutions.com/12.html

[Loves2Shoot]

Thanks

[Larry White]

One of our local shooters is shooting a sagia 12 with mags modified to hold 10 rds by some one from San Angelo. The shotgun is not quite 100% yet but close and getting better. If he hits his reloads he loads 10 faster than some of our better open shotgun shooters load 4 with speed loaders. When all the bugs get worked out this platform will be hard to beat in open shotgun.-----Larry

[Liota]

My 20 knocks down poppers and plates like gangbusters. No issues, even with no choke.

The only downside is trying to find 20 guage slugs. They are hard to find sometimes.

L

[L9X25]

My 20 knocks down poppers and plates like gangbusters. No issues, even with no choke.

The only downside is trying to find 20 guage slugs. They are hard to find sometimes.

L

In my area they tend to put poppers out at extended distances. Since math works, a 20ga cannot have the same pattern density as a 12 ga while maintaining the same size pattern. At the longer distances the 20ga pattern density will thin out and make it less consistent at taking the steel. By use a MOD choke, the pattern stays dense enough to take the steel with authority. The 12 ga guys can shoot IC at the same distance and have a larger pattern with sufficient density to take the steel consistently.

I collect 20ga slugs anytime I find them. The can be scarce at times.

Leo

[Larry White]

My 20 knocks down poppers and plates like gangbusters. No issues, even with no choke.

The only downside is trying to find 20 guage slugs. They are hard to find sometimes.

L

And buck shot, all I could ever find was #3. I used mod. choke all the time when I shot 20ga. The best load I ever found was the rem hvy dove load 21/2 dram 1oz of 6s. Whith the 20 ga and mod choke you get a real long shot string that puts a lot of shot on target and takes steel well, but its about like shooting a rifle, you really have to be on them. The 5/8 rem slug is the real deal in lo recoil slugs and is accurate. But when you take into account the lighter wt. of the 20ga guns and the loads used I dont think there is any or very little reduction in recoil. I went to 12 ga, just so much more aviable in loads, accessories and guns to put up with the 20ga short comeings. Larry

[Wakal]

IMO, based on side by side comparison, using:

Fred and Professor McCoy's customized Saigas (standard stocks, mid-barrel comps, Doctor sights) as well as my and Liota's customized Saigas (Tapco M4 stocks, pistol grips, Doctor sights, choked (her S20 has a Polychoke to my S12's factory chokes)).

The S20 feels faster (cycle-wise) than the S12: Advantage S20

The S20 has factory 10-round magzines (vice hunting down twice as many 5-round S12 mags as you need and sending them all off to San Angelo with a health check and a dose of patience): Advantage S20

The S12 has far more types of ammunition available: Advantage S12

I like Liota's S20 better than my backup shotgun (a converted S12) due to the snappy (rifle-like) cycling as well as the easy to use (and find) factory magazines; with the Polychoke on it now, it seems to be the hot ticket. Well, as long as the shooter buys their favorite ammo by the case lot and keeps a healthy stock of same on hand...

http://www.dreadnaught-industries.com/imag..._Open_dec05.jpg

Alex

[Loves2Shoot]

Alex, what trigger are you using?

[Wakal]

Tapco's single hook trigger set.

Dr. McCoy has used several of the high-dollar "adjustable" sets in his S20, but has had every brand fail under the crucible of competition thus far (although the pull/release trigger was my favorite ), and is down to the standard Tapco set

Alex

[kdmoore]

I sold out my 20 when I got my 12.

Couple of reasons, some won't matter to you.

I shoot mostly local matches. Some dictated 00 buck. Not possible with the 20.

One match dictated 12ga.

The magazines only work with the designated shell. i.e. 3 inch is not reliable with 2 3/4. This mattered as I intended to make up performance with loadings. IIRC, you could get buckshot #3 in one length and #4 in the other, so I wanted to be able to use either without having 2 sets of mags ($$ reasons).

Ammo selection is diminished. (harder to find loads in #6, #5, etc). When I sold mine, I made some money as I had purchased ~50 boxes of slugs at $1/5 rounds that I sold to new owner for $1.5/5 I miss Galyans!

Didn't know domestic mags were coming, but that also would steer me to the 12 as I doubt you'll see any mags, or other accessories developed for the 20ga.

I miss the shotgun a lot, I'll eventually get another. Here's why.

I expected them to recoil the same (lighter gun+ lighter shell = heavier gun+heavier shell .... not), but the 20 was noticibly lighter in my hands.

Reloads were easier (shorter mag? narrower mag?). Don't know why.

It shot very accurate with slugs.

[Loves2Shoot]

Thanks guys, I have a S12 on the way, as ammo here is pretty limited and I trust the guys who have had it before me. Thanks for the input!!!

Any suggestions on the best way to mount my Eotech Holosight? I think that should work ok, if I hit the weights a bit

Edited March 2, 2006 by Loves2Shoot

[surfmaster]

Loves2Shoot,

Where did you purchase your Saiga 12 from? Thanks in advance.

[Loves2Shoot]

Private party.