Holsters For Idpa V. Idsa V. Uspsa V. ?

[LawDog101]

Concealed?

Not concealed?

Waist?

Below Waist?

IWB?

Not IWB?

All the different rules? Can I use my drop leg in a USPSA or do I have to be concealed with a standard or IWB?

What gives, anyone have a chart?

I hate the idea of concealed. I would just prefer to roll around on the ground with my duty or mil-spec gear instead of having some vest or something on.

Help.

James

[JFD]

Both IDPA and USPSA have their rules available online on their sites.

If you don't like concealed, then don't bother checking the IDPA site, stick with USPSA.

[diehli]

Actually both IDPA and USPSA allow the use of duty gear for LEOs.

[LawDog101]

Assuming that one is not a LEO, close, but no cigar, it appears that USPSA is the way to go. I really find the IMG rules pretty basic and less confusing.

[mda]

Lawdog

Some of this would depend on what division you shoot in. But bacisly, No you can not use a drop leg holster. Grip of gun must not be below belt level regardless of what division you shoot. Production and Single stack divisions holster must be at or behind hip bone.

Mark

[LawDog101]

Lawdog

Some of this would depend on what division you shoot in. But bacisly, No you can not use a drop leg holster. Grip of gun must not be below belt level regardless of what division you shoot. Production and Single stack divisions holster must be at or behind hip bone.

Mark

I appreciate the help, but is this for IPSC, USPA, IMG, etc.? I saw a bunch of folks in the Trooper class at Tiger Valley that had drop legs, so it wouldn't interfere with their packs.

Why does it matter where the holster is, so long as it is safe (no sweep, etc.). Seems like the IMG folks have it pretty good. They don't seem to care. I can understand not having full race gear with tac gear, but otherwise, isn't is just a preference.

Some people carry at the hip, some carry IWB, some OWB, some paddle, some SOB, etc.

Unless it gives one person an unfair advantage, why would anyone care?

I like the drop leg. It feels more natural in draw and holster (I am taller 6'2") and it is out of the way for my pack and LBE gear, etc.

I really do not get the whole concealed thing at all. Maybe someone can explain it to me but it appears that there is a big debate over all of these rules anyway.

Seems like most folks would like to shoot in their own style. I prefer military/tactical. I like my BDU's, LBE, drop leg on both sides, etc. Some folks prefer otherwise.

James

[mda]

Lawdog

Well In IDPA, IPSIC, and USPSA those are the rules. I do not know about IMG so you need to look up the rule book for that sport.

Some people like to pratice what they carry everyday so why not have matches the test these skills? Hence, IDPA requires shooting from concealment holsters and mags. Others just what to shoot fast and accurate without regard to cover and tac reloads etc. USPSA was created. You want to shoot with a pack, drop holster and BDU's. IMG sounds like the place for you.

[diehli]

Well, now you're talking 3-Gun. USPSA 3-Gun allows drop-leg holsters.

[LawDog101]

The idea of using what you c-carry is nice, IF, you carry at the hip, standard holster. I don't carry that way and use a Milt Sparks SOB holster to carry my Kahr P9. So having to shoot with a hip holster when I don't ever carry that way makes no sense to me.

As an attorney, I really can't put a .45 on the hip under my jacket. Doesn't work. But, since my jacket is long enough, the SOB works. Plus, the Kahr is small enough that if I land on my back, it is much better than a full size pistol.

I can see why there is always a discussion on the boards regarding rules.

It appears that IMG and USPSA is where I need to be.

Thanks for the information.

James

Edited March 2, 2006 by benos

[ihatepickles]

USPSA specifically disallows camo and BDU's unless you're LEO or Military. They want everyday Joe's and Jill's wearing street clothes to attend matches.

The holster rules in USPSA are basically this:

Limited or Open Classes, use about any holster that's safe and keeps the butt of the weapon at belt level or higher.

Production Class, no race holsters. Belt holsters are fine, such as pouch, pancake, etc... Ghost, CR, Limcat, etc... are not fine. No SOB, shoulder holsters, etc... as these kinds of holsters violate the 180 degree safety rule.

If you're LEO or Military you can use your duty gear, which I guess can include thigh holsters although I'm not certain.

The holster rules for IDPA are basically this:

All classes, fully concealed rig. Belt holsters only. No SOB, shoulder holsters, etc... as these kinds of holsters violate the 180 degree safety rule.

I would read the rules before attending a match, as these are just summaries. If you read the rules and aren't sure, post a specific question about that rule and I'm sure you'll get lots of feedback. USPSA plays out a bit more like a game (with deadly weapons). IDPA is typically more defensive scenarios (even though nothing shoots back at you).

[LawDog101]

I think some folks are using the Tiger Valley IMG 3-gun rules.

The rest of this is pretty bogus. No camo's? I wear them b/c they are cheap, durable and have tons of pockets? Besides, they are what I hunt and shoot in.

Anyone have a list of clubs in Texas that shoot IMG?

James

[JFD]

Then it looks like USPSA is out and IMG is your game.

[ihatepickles]

deleted. not worth my time.

Edited February 10, 2006 by ihatepickles

[Merlin Orr]

The rest of this is pretty bogus. No camo's? I wear them b/c they are cheap, durable and have tons of pockets? Besides, they are what I hunt and shoot in.

James

I agree on the cheap, durable and have tons of pockets. The powers that be in the sports other than IMG feel the Mall Ninja look would be detrimental to the sports... Give people outside the sport the wrong impression that our member/practitioners are trying to be some kind of wannabe para military types...

[LawDog101]

Appreciate the info. Always good to be able to discuss things. Different people have different positions on shooting. I figure that once I get +40, my attitude will probably be different than it is now.

If you have a comment, Pickles, go ahead. If I am way out of line, fine, I can handle it. Don't agree, fine too. I am a lawyer by trade, Plaintiff's bar, but still have friends that are defense attorney's.

All this PC nonsense and trying to make everyone think one way or another about the shooting community just doesn't work for me. We shoot guns, most are of military spec, AR, .4's, etc. None of that is PC to the tree-huggers or other anti-gunners. Just because we run around in Khaki's and button downs doesn't make them hate us any less. How we conduct ourselves in everyday life is what matters. When I go shoot, I shoot in a manner that I get the most benefit out of it. Mall-ninja included.

You are right, IMG is fine with me. Headed to Tiger Valley on the 18th.

James

[Crusher]

The BDU issue (as far as pants, 511/Sig Tac/Woolrich/ and even Levis all make "cargo pants") is a non issue for both IDPA and USPSA.

There ARE however holster rules for both sports (USPSA/IDPA and thats what they are) with execptions (as noted in the respective rulebooks) made for LEO/Mil personel. Even with these execeptions the vast majority of LEOs/Mils shoot from same types of rigs most others use depending on the game and the division within the game.

[the gman 763]

I understand where you're coming from with the camo pants thing but this isn't a new ruling for the touchy feely 21st century. When I was shooting IPSC in the UK in the mid to late '80s, it was the same rule then.

You're an attorney so you should understand that oftentimes, perception is reality for the uninformed. Put a buncha guys in some kind of camo, running around with guns, shooting fast & reloading real quick & shock horror, actually shooting at humanoid targets & you have the basis for a 60 minutes expose into the "horrific world of combat shooting"....

I've been out of the gun games for a number of years (living in a gun owner's nightmare land like the UK will do that to ya) & now I live in NM, I'm getting back into it. I was brought into the sport before open guns, comps, red dots et al & part of me kinda misses those days. BUT, that was then, this is now, these comps I want to enter & do well at require ME to change my mindset.

It's their ball game & I can either sit on the outside & piss & moan about how stuff is stupid or change ME. No-one is gonna change IPSC/IDPA rules just because I don't agree with 'em. If I wanna play, I have to do the changing.

It's hard, I have to practise daily to break myself of the habit of dropping into a modified Weaver 'cos that stance ain't winning matches. Sure it's worked for me for years but it ain't the way forward.

I too wear camo BDU's (well the Brit DPM pattern actually but you get what I mean) for hunting but IPSC ain't hunting. When I shoot comps, I don't want a bunch of stuff flapping around my legs in cargo pockets or elsewhere, hell I leave my wallet, keys, loose change & my knife in the truck. What did I go to the range to do, shoot targets or practice the D-Day landings?

What I personally think is really funny is the guys who have the uber tactical 5.11 pants with their tactical knives in the pockets & tactical this & that hung offa them, what's up with that? Closet mall ninja's methinks.... I'm not saying that 5.11 pants are bad in & of themselves, just I can buy a bunch more pairs of pants from Wally World for the same money & not get upset if I tear a hole in 'em on a stage.

Anyway, if you're an attorney, you should be well able to afford to buy another couple pairs of pants to shoot in.....

[LawDog101]

I have several pairs of Khaki BDU's which work fine, but, again, my point is this..... a bunch of guys shooting with AR's (with every accessory mounted to them), pistols (with many mags), and a shotgun. Does anyone really think that anyone will somehow believe that they are PC just because they are wearing Khaki's instead of camos?

For that matter, what if we all wore suits and ties and did our shooting in a pair of Cole Hahn laofers? Would that somehow make us more PC. I do not have a problem with the rules. Zero problem. It is just the principle that if we wear something subdued that it will somehow cover up the fact that we are weilding full on mil-spec weaponry.

Thanks for the input.

James

[the gman 763]

Hey James, thanks for taking my comments in the spirit I intended them; i.e. slightly tongue in cheek.

I completely agree with you as regards the practical difference between the camo clad guy & khakis. It's a matter of perception & to a certain extent, being able to defend ourselves against critics.

We all know there are those folks out there at the likes of HCI who hate us no matter what we wear or what we shoot, they are opposed to the whole idea of private gun ownership. We will NEVER win their hearts & minds no matter what. Fortunately, they are a very tiny, albeit vocal minority of the great American public.

What we are trying to avoid is the majority of ordinary non-shooting folks (& sad to say, some who shoot as well) looking at us in the action shotting sports as a bunch of camo clad Walter Mitty type characters who are one step away from living in their own compound & shooting down black helo's....

All the non shooters I have introduced to the sport in the past, either as participants or as spectators, realised that we are just ordinary folks just like them. That we happen to shoot guns really quickly whilst running around is quite interesting to them. Now if some of our fellow competitors were wearing camo, they might think a little differently about what it is we do.

Heck, if you have one witness who walks into court dressed in a nice suit, clean shaven & looking respectable & another who comes in with 2 days worth of beard, unwashed & dressed in camo pants & a grubby T-shirt, who is the jury more likely to have faith in based PURELY on looks? The guy in the suit might be a complete liar & the rumpled guy might be telling the God's honest truth but the latter guy starts off at a disadvantage before he even opens his mouth.

It happens every single day in our interaction with others: we make judgments based on our perception of the other person's appearance. If I see what looks to me to be an unsavoury character, I use my elbow to reassure myself that my 10mm DE is right there on my hip but I don't do that with girls or average people.

Sometimes we are using mil-spec stuff but as a vet of 12 years in the Brit Army, it really isn't "full on" 'cos I don't think anyone ever won a national match by calling in an air strike....... I'm a natural joker, it's not aimed at you James, just trying to lighten the mood. Glad to have had this discussion with you & even more glad to have found this site, goodwill to all here.

[21ravens]

Yikes! Glad I stopped in and reeled out this thread. I coulda ended up on the range with a totally bogus look! Saved again by my trusty (and well dressed) buds... I think I gotta go shoot something. Dressed in Levis. (Me, not the target!)

Sartorially yours,

21ravens

[LawDog101]

This is a great forum for things just such as this. I would add to your comments that if both the "suit wearing guy" and the "rumpled guy" are both pointing an AR at you, I don't think you would care who was wearing what. Right?

For me, who is just getting into this sport, I have figured out that the concealed thing just doesn't work for me. Some say it is practical, but like I said above, I carry SOB, so a hip holster for competition doesn't do anything for me.

So, I have made a choice to shy away from the rules that require me to have a concealed holster. However, the new USPSA multi-gun rules (with addendum from the Nationals) lets me wear my drop leg tac holster. Good thing. Also, the IMG rules are pretty fun also.

Like they say, there is a place for everyone.

James

[Flexmoney]

LD,

I wouldn't get to worried about the rules. Go hit a couple matches. Have some fun. We are all about the shooting, competition, and fellowship.

Nobody really cares what you wear. We aren't out at matches to make fashion or political statements with our clothes. (though we do have some gear lovers )

We could talk about PC until we are blue in the face. The fact is, somebody that has been around longer than you and me took a look at it and made a call. I am guessing it's not so much a PC thing as it is to differentiate us from other groups...like certain militias (who, are certainly out to make a political statement).

We just enjoy shooting and bettering ourselves through competition. If that aligns with your goals...then, we'll see you at the matches.