AlamoShooter Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 (edited) Steve Anderson's Book has helped me transiton from steel to IPSC. my transition time from target to target and my splits on a five yard target were about the same. My slpits have improved but I have found that my thumb is slipping off the safety now and engageing it durring the shooting. Is this part of the learning curve? or am I just as strange as 'They" keep saying? My steel target to target transition is close to .30 and under some times. my split on a 4 yard IPSC target was at .22 or .23 = I was waiting ...waiting ... bang. I never thought I could get a split below .20 or .19 was the lowest before. This past week had a break through for me I can get to .17 on a 7yard A. and a few at .15 and one at .13=c. But out of 100 rounds my thumb will slip and push the safety on. maybe it is becuse I broke my safety last month? or maybe I should stick to my revolver? Or? Suffer in silence? In 1991 Brian autographed a book for me. ... he said "Stick with it & Stay Sharp" Well I stuck but I feal a little dull some times. Edited January 31, 2006 by AlamoShooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 I've actually never heard of that before.... My first suggestion would be to grip the gun a bit harder. What kind of gun do you shoot? Is there anything unique about the safety that could contribute to the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 There is a reason it is slipping off, you have to figure out WHY. Does it ever happen in dry fire? Do you notice any difference in the sight track when it happens? If I had to take a stab in the dark at what is happening I would say that your grip pressure is changing while you are shooting. There is some manipulation of the gun in your hand that is letting the thumb off the safety. Maybe some focus on keeping both thumbs 'soft' in pressure and keeping the grip tension even will take care of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 My first reaction was to suggest to grip the gun easier. So, there you go, pay some attention to what is going on with your grip. (Iso, right? Not weaver?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Finger Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 (edited) Maybe you always did it, but never had the safety go on & the new safety has poor detent to stay down? off easy on hard. Edited January 31, 2006 by Powder Finger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 What is pushing it on? Is your thumb coming off and going under? Or is the heel of your support hand pushing up on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted January 31, 2006 Author Share Posted January 31, 2006 Wow Thanks to all The gun is an STI Wide Body Open / light steel gun. I never did it before this past month in just this month = shooting IPSC targets in match and in intence practice. The thumb pushes the safety on, and yes the detent in the new safety is not as good as it was on the old. My grip has alwasy ben strong, to the point that in a reload the magazine would not fall out untill I 'let up" on my grip. I think my grip is what broke my safety last month. The old and replacment safety is a Brown ambri. = In Dry fire yes it happend one time. yes Iso -not Weaver = give me some credit Flex = I said I wacko not stupid I do not see the 'dot track' I look at what I want to hit and as the dot comes in I am aware of its location. I can normaly Call a shot very close I nkow if I have Cs and a D The only time the Mike supprises me is on overlapping targets or hard cover black. I set up to grip the gun lighter in part so I would not break the safety again & to let my triger finger relax a bit so it would come off the trigger faster. I did have one thought it is that I am learning two no/ three things at one time. = going from minor steel loads to Major and working my splits, and learning to engage more than five to ten shots a run all at the same time. That would be IT... to many changes at one time, no wonder = thanks for the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 (edited) Hard to say, but it sure sounds like you might be putting a bit 'extra' into your grip to handle the go fast at major issue. I'd suggest more weak hand grip, and a lot less strong hand. The strong hand doesn't really need to hold the gun...and, it aides little in recoil control. Try 70% weak hand to 30 % strong on your grip-o-meter. And, really look into the camming of the weak hand/wrist. Also, Burkett has some timing drills that will likely let you explore this all in one day. http://mattburkett.com/html/catindx1.html (timing drills are suggest ANY time your change ANYTHING) Also, check out his grip and stance article...all there in the tips section. ------------------- Oh... Might stay away from the trying to go fast. Work out your grip and timing...then, your vision will take you to the speed. Edited January 31, 2006 by Flexmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Wow, if you can squeeze the grip down where the mag won't come out it isn't a surprise that you don't see where the dot goes before it makes its way back to the target. Back your grip pressure off by 95%, and start the timing drills Flex linked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted February 1, 2006 Author Share Posted February 1, 2006 Thanks Flex and HSmith. My eyes and vision are doing as good as I could hope for. I know whar 98% of my bullets are going to hit before they arive at the target. As soon as the shot breaks I am looking for the next target / spot on the target I want to hit and the dot arives as fast as I can see a spot to stop on. The probelm I din't like about my splits was that my vision and dot would be on the target for the second hit / double tap. but i would have to wait on the gun to trigger. on the steel my vision does the trigger pulling = I just watch the show, if I dont interfear with it... things go good. I thing with two hits on the same target split that has pesterd me is that I having to wait and wait for the gun to fire, my gun is on target but no bang I am past careing what the dot does in recoil. Is that a bad thing? so long as it goes back to what i am looking at.? Do you think if I looked at the dot and watched it track that my trigger would keep up better? That is realy hard for me to think about because I know on steel I want to find the next target as fast as posible. Not watching the dot = I only look at the dot on long targets. Thanks again for trying to help, I will prosess the information in my tinny little world behind my eyes Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 It sure sounds like you are waiting...because you are tense (mentally as well as physically)...trying for that split. I can't judge that, but that is what I read in your posts. And, that is likely and understandable. You are attempting a new thing, and you already have performance expectations from all your experience with Steel. Often, most of these answers is found somewhere along the lines of getting a bit more relaxed (but still attentive)...and, most importantly, turning up the vision. Don't worry, just focus on being "aware". Your body will work this out if your awareness is turned on. Those timing drills that Burkett has on his site provide a great format to test things out. The probelm I din't like about my splits was that my vision and dot would be on the target for the second hit / double tap. but i would have to wait on the gun to trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 I am mainly an open sight guy but I have been playing with a dot quite a bit lately.... I just started working with a new Limited gun and I found that by moving my hands around on the gun and varying my grip pressure that I could get the sight to lift and come RIGHT back to where it started, and it does it so fast it is hard to believe. I have shot a lot of splits in the high teens and low twenties where I was behind the sight returning with my trigger pull. Once I figured out what grip and pressure I needed I burned it in during dry fire, now it is the only way I can grab the gun that feels natural. The timing drills Flex linked have helped me learn the timing of my gun and WITHOUT EFFORT I can hit some pretty quick splits with good hits. I got the grip sorted out first, then went into the timing drills. I am no expert but I think that is the best way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted February 1, 2006 Author Share Posted February 1, 2006 Thanks! Flex is on target. So is Smith I will do the Mat drill I know that is the best direction. Tense! yep you hit it. I will print out your advise I remember coaching sporting clay shooters not to be tense and now I am it. Thanks again Jamie for the forum thread should I put in closed to save space? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 for the forum thread should I put in closed to save space? Oh...no, not at all. Somebody will come along, do a search and find this thread, then continue the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewcolglazier Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 for the forum thread should I put in closed to save space? Oh...no, not at all. Somebody will come along, do a search and find this thread, then continue the discussion. Anyway, back to the thumbsafety issue.... I have difficulty with keeping my thumb on the safety while firing because I have small hands and a pronounced hitch-hiker's thumb. To keep my thumb in place while firing, I have to exaggerate my strong hand grip, which leads to all kinds of goofy things happening.... Just another reason I don't shoot 1911 or 2011 style pistols.... Andy C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Jamie - check a couple of things. First, you can enlarge the detent in the safety so that the plunger will do a better job of keeping it off safe. Second, check the contour of the bottom of the safety paddle, and make sure it's not your *left* hand that's really bumping the safety up. With an appropriate grip, your right hand thumb can't get under the safety, cause the 2nd joint on your left hand thumb is in the way. If you'll be at the ALSPPC match tomorrow, I can show you what I mean, and how I've contoured mine to avoid the issue... Which safety did you install on the gun? Ed Browns slope downwards away from the gun - which helps you not ride the slide with your thumb, but also perhaps exagerrating this behavior for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 With an appropriate grip, your right hand thumb can't get under the safety, cause the 2nd joint on your left hand thumb is in the way. This is the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 Jamie - check a couple of things. First, you can enlarge the detent in the safety so that the plunger will do a better job of keeping it off safe. Second, check the contour of the bottom of the safety paddle, and make sure it's not your *left* hand that's really bumping the safety up. With an appropriate grip, your right hand thumb can't get under the safety, cause the 2nd joint on your left hand thumb is in the way.If you'll be at the ALSPPC match tomorrow, I can show you what I mean, and how I've contoured mine to avoid the issue... Which safety did you install on the gun? Ed Browns slope downwards away from the gun - which helps you not ride the slide with your thumb, but also perhaps exagerrating this behavior for you... I think everyone is corect. Yep the detent in the new safety was not like it was before. = I fixed that last night. and yes my left hand is way up =melted to the grip up under the right. But It may have sliped and helped the pore detent on the safety to jump up. I found a place on the safety that the slide had marked as it went past = so it was trying to come up anyway. Fex is right on too with the Tension, add that to the small changes in the gun and that would do it. Dave help from you on Saturday would be great = thanks ...& Dave today is just Wednesday not Friday the shoot is in three days. But I am glad you are so pumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Dave help from you on Saturday would be great = thanks ...& Dave today is just Wednesday not Friday the shoot is in three days. But I am glad you are so pumped. Dammit, I said tomorrow!!!! I guess I'll be out there alone... sigh... Yes, yes, Saturday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 jamie, arent you fast enough? watching you shoot at the 04 area4 steel match made me want to go home and practice...insane speed. good luck..and dont break any more safetys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted February 3, 2006 Author Share Posted February 3, 2006 jamie, arent you fast enough? watching you shoot at the 04 area4 steel match made me want to go home and practice...insane speed.good luck..and dont break any more safetys! Well thanks ,but one way to trip me up is put three IPSC targets at three yards. Up untill a few weeks ago I could just about hit five steel plates faster than trying to get six hits on close paper. The help I got on this thread will guide me down the path. I have to admit that before I thought IPSC was too eazy and I never realy cared to look into it closer. The local clubs set up grate matches though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 You know those three targets at three yards... So many shooters see those type of arrays and think speed, speed, speed. I used to as well. And, it is amazing how often misses will show up on targets like that when you have the mindset of speed. A much better approach, for me, on those close targets...and this carries over to every target (thus, giving me simplicity)...is to ask myself for vision. I shoot those close targets with the idea that those are free Alphas. There is no reason to miss the Alpha at that distance. And, with the vision in the driver's seat, the speed takes care of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted February 5, 2006 Author Share Posted February 5, 2006 Thanks Flex the 'vision Montra' will be a good one for me. A match today in Austin had the safety thing worked out with some confirmation from Dave Re as well. My head was not screwed on for the match though. I did some corective work to the gun after the match today and before I did setup fo rour match in San Antonio. = Im worn down with all this shooting. Any way I did a 'dot check' = I looked at the dot during six shot strings, it stays on the a Ipsc target at 9 yards kind of makes a baloon shape circle cresting at the b zone. If that mean any thing. Thanks to all for helping me. Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 It should go straight up and down. If it is making a circle you might be causing it. Are you touching the frame with your left thumb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Jaimie, when you did the dot check did the dot come back exactly where it was? If so, great!! If not move your hands around and get it to come back exactly where it was. Lots of grip pressure makes getting the dot to do this harder for me by a lot. Light grip pressure will have it coming back when my hands are in the right positions easily, but it is slow to return. Increasing the pressure brings it back faster and faster up to a point, at that point it starts moving unpredictably. I think that point of pressure is where I am gripping harder than my hand strength can do easily inducing shakes and tension in the arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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