When It's Not The Ro Yelling Commands...

[ima45dv8]

I confess to having done the same thing when I noticed someone not in the proper start position. The choices are to (1) say nothing until the run is complete and then advise the RO, who will then likely/should assess a procedural for the incorrect start position, or (2) try to correct it before the shooter actually fires a shot. (*If they are already shooting I wouldn't say anything until the run was complete.)

If you elect for option (1), the shooter might feel like the RO did not assist them by pointing out the improper position, that the penalty is unfair because the RO shouldn't have issed a start signal (8.3.1), and could then argue for a reshoot based on the RO's neglect. After all, it's the RO responsibility to ensure the start position is correct before starting the timer, right?. Except for the case of creeping that occurs just when the timer goes off, wouldn't the attempt at the CoF be invalid due to the improper start position? The argument could be made that a reshoot would then be mandatory.

Select option (2) and you could save the shooter the trouble of getting ramped up for a second time, save them ammo, and you don't have to deal with other shooter's complaining that it amounted to a "practice" run (childish, yes, but I've heard sillier complaints). Mostly, you help an RO do their job as intended, a large part of which is maintaining a fair environment for all the competitors, and that includes consistent start positions (when specified).

Like I said, if I can catch them before they draw their gun, I will.

...Mark

[Sharyn]

I usually don't want to go "right now",... because I don't want to rush. I don't want to go to the end of the line either. My choice, is to go to the on-deck spot while they run the next shooter.

It does nothing to my mental program. I accept that reshoots are part of the game.

You don't want to rush, so you want to regain your composure, correct? I think that's part of a mental program.

I accept reshoots as part of the game too.

[Nik Habicht]

I use Flex's approach to re-shoots as well, not because I need to recover my composure, but because, as a production shooter, I usually need to reload mags. I just need a minute to get my gear in order --- mentally I'm fine with going right now ---- and have on short stages.

[wide45]

I confess to having done the same thing when I noticed someone not in the proper start position. The choices are to (1) say nothing until the run is complete and then advise the RO, who will then likely/should assess a procedural for the incorrect start position

Why would the competitor receive a procedural for being started out of position? It is the RO's error, not the competitors.

See rule 8.3.1 It is the responsibility of the RO not to proceed until the competitor asumes the start position.

In the written stage briefing, the start position is usually separate, not included in the stage procedure, thus 10.1.1 does not apply.

Edited February 3, 2006 by wide45

[ima45dv8]

I confess to having done the same thing when I noticed someone not in the proper start position. The choices are to (1) say nothing until the run is complete and then advise the RO, who will then likely/should assess a procedural for the incorrect start position

Why would the competitor receive a procedural for being started out of position? It is the RO's error, not the competitors.

See rule 8.3.1 It is the responsibility of the RO not to proceed until the competitor asumes the start position.

In the written stage briefing, the start position is usually separate, not included in the stage procedure, thus 10.1.1 does not apply.

Wide, it made more sense when I was typing than when I read your response. My error. A penalty would not be in order. I still think it should result in a reshoot, so stopping the shooter before a wasted run seems like a good idea.

[piper]

In an attempt to clarify some of the points brought up ,

I was there, standing beside the well intentioned but uninformed screamer.

When he cut loose with STOP STOP STOP , everybody , stopped everything .

We thought someone was going to shoot someone, or a similar disaster .

I mean everybody stopped moving , the shooter ,the RO the spectators.

We really thought that there was a PROBLEM !!!!!

When he explained what he thought the problem was, I was all for giving him a procedural on the spot... [edit]

The original ,written , course description ,had you starting with the gun on a barrel.

However the first squad to shoot, did not read that , and started

Hands at sides in a shooting box. The match director saw this at the end of this squads time on this course . And in the interest of moving the match along, simply changed the start position to Hands at sides in the box. He informed all the squads of this change, to be explained at that squads course description. We, the third squad to shoot this course had just walked up and were watching the 2nd squad to shoot this course.

The screamer was "WRONG" , no excuse even if it was the wrong start position.

There was not a safety problem..He should have received a penalty.

If it was a safety problem he was "RIGHT" . We did not know . It was the right thing to do at the time Everyone stopped!!!!

Sharyn gets a reshoot. right away or later in the order. Her choice .

If we thought that this was anything but a well intentioned mistake . A match DQ for unsportsman like conduct and Sharyn's GLARE, would be the start of his problems.

At a Major match, this event could, and maybe should be a Match DQ.

[edited to remove name calling, PM sent.]

Edited February 3, 2006 by Flexmoney

[Flexmoney]

I usually don't want to go "right now",... because I don't want to rush. I don't want to go to the end of the line either. My choice, is to go to the on-deck spot while they run the next shooter.

It does nothing to my mental program. I accept that reshoots are part of the game.

You don't want to rush, so you want to regain your composure, correct?

Incorrect. The not wanting to rush is not a composure issue. Nik covered most of it. Along with what he said, I just need a short bit of time to restart my program. Usually, going to the on-deck' position will give me time to reset and mentally run the stage again.

The reset isn't a loss of composure, it is allowing to approach each stage in a consistent manner.

Some shooters (I think Steve Anderson picked this up from Chris Tilley) want to reshoot "right now". Even if that means running to the range bag and topping off their #1 mag, and running back to the start line. Perhaps, the idea there being that they don't have time to think about the 'what-ifs'. That may fit their temperament best.

For me, going to the on-deck position allows me to just re-start my mental game. As if from square one...same as always. And, doing so, I am only thinking about execution of the stage...no room for the 'what-ifs'.

If I go to the bottom of the list, there is time for the 'what-ifs'. And, usually, somebody will want to talk about what happened, which isn't a positive part of the mental game. But, that really doesn't bother me too much either, as there is time to play that out and still get into the pre-stage program.

[carinab]

Some shooters (I think Steve Anderson picked this up from Chris Tilley) want to reshoot "right now". Even if that means running to the range bag and topping off their #1 mag, and running back to the start line. Perhaps, the idea there being that they don't have time to think about the 'what-ifs'. That may fit their temperament best.

For me, going to the on-deck position allows me to just re-start my mental game. As if from square one...same as always. And, doing so, I am only thinking about execution of the stage...no room for the 'what-ifs'.

If I go to the bottom of the list, there is time for the 'what-ifs'. And, usually, somebody will want to talk about what happened, which isn't a positive part of the mental game. But, that really doesn't bother me too much either, as there is time to play that out and still get into the pre-stage program.

For me, I think it depends on how far I get into the COF before getting stopped. Had a range equipment failure at a stage at the nationals last year - swinger set wrong. Kinda' funny actually because the RO couldn't see the swinger because I was blocking the door way (the door was the activator). So I rip open the door, rip two shots at the static, then <pause - pause - pause>...I turned to the RO and said something like "He doesn't panic when faced with a gun." The RO didn't get my lame joke but he did look over my shoulder and said "Tape 'em." Anyway, since it was only 8-10 rounds into a field course, I opted to top off and jump back on the line. Had I gotten any further, I would have bumped to on deck just to let the adrenaline dump wear off.

Edited February 4, 2006 by carinab