Glock Trigger Safety

[Precision40]

This is just getting just stupid.

When you remove the trigger safety on a Glock you are in essence doing the same thing as removing the thumb safety on a 1911, that has a pinned grip safety. THERE IS NO OTHER SAFETY. Don't give me this "drop safety" crap, as how many of you have heard of a dropped gun going off vs how many have seen and heard of AD's while holstering hot?

Stupid things like "gluing" or removing the trigger safety as some have suggested is just dumb and I don't want to be on the same range as them. I will also not feel bad to send them home from any match I RO or chronograph at.

JM2C

+1

Tinkering like that could get yourself or someone else killed, not to mention the legal ramifications if you should accidently shoot someone with a gun without an active safety. I can't recall if I've ever felt the trigger safety on my Glocks while shooting. IF you do, then your paying attention to the wrong thing while shooting (IMHO)

[the duck of death]

*QUOTE*

i did not remove it to improve trigger pull, its just that i took out all the pre-travel, and it rendered that part useless, so why leave it there if its non-functional

Also, if you limit the forward travel of your trigger, the drop safety is disabled. The left wing on the trigger bar isn't held up by the housing any more

These problems can be avoided by using proper techniques.

[blkbrd]

*QUOTE*

i did not remove it to improve trigger pull, its just that i took out all the pre-travel, and it rendered that part useless, so why leave it there if its non-functional

Also, if you limit the forward travel of your trigger, the drop safety is disabled. The left wing on the trigger bar isn't held up by the housing any more

These problems can be avoided by using proper techniques.

My point exactly, and proper technique is not de-activating every safety in your gun by doing stupid things, creating a hazzard for yourself and others. You just can't make a Glock trigger into a 1911 trigger as you wont have any safety left when you do.

You can remove "some" pretravel and make the stroke smooth, light with a crisp break, but you need some of that pretravel to deactivate and reactivate the safetys.

I heard some safety officials and ROs at an area match talking that they will be watching for unsafe "Glock triggers" at chrono tables and enforcing rules 5.1.4 & 5.1.6. It's just a matter of time before USPSA/IPSC/IDPA officials catch on to all the unsafe Glock triggers with non functioning trigger and drop safetys and put there foot down.

[bountyhunter]

For the record, I didn't remove the safety (yet). But, I still can not find any logic in this statement:

"Don't give me this "drop safety" crap, as how many of you have heard of a dropped gun going off vs how many have seen and heard of AD's while holstering hot?"

If a gun goes off while "holsetring hot", it means some idiot had his finger on the trigger as he holstered it.

Exactly how will the Glock trigger safety prevent that ND since (by design) the safety is gone the minute a careless idiot places his finger on the trigger?

As for:

"When you remove the trigger safety on a Glock you are in essence doing the same thing as removing the thumb safety on a 1911, that has a pinned grip safety."

NO, NO, NO.... and NO!

The thumb safety on a 1911 (or HI-Power) is a sear blocking safety device. When activated, YOU CAN PULL THE TRIGGER AND THE GUN CAN NOT FIRE! Hence, it is an actual "safety" because it prevents an ND when a careless person does something stupid.... such as holstering the gun with his finger on the trigger.

You can not compare that to the Glock trigger safety which is basically useless: if the user gets careless and touches the trigger, the gun will fire. If the trigger snags on something, it will also very likely fire. It is a safety which does not actually make the gun any safer in the types of situations where ND's occur.

"Stupid things like "gluing" or removing the trigger safety as some have suggested is just dumb and I don't want to be on the same range as them."

OK, if you want to try to defend the position that "no safety should ever be disabled", I guess you can. But the HP magazine disconnect is in the closet of millions of shooters.

JMB believed the thumb safety was plenty for the original 1911.

And as I have pointed out, the Glock "trigger safety" functions as a safety in every case except those where you actually need it to prevent the gun from firing.

I don't have a huge problem with negating a useless safety, and I sure wouldn't bar people from a range for doing it.

Especially since the guy in my PPC league just showed up with a very expensive (name brand) 1911 which started "drop firing" every time he slide dropped to load it.....

A Glock with out it's "trigger safety" just doesn't put fear in my heart....

For the record: I never made any modifications to reduce pre travel or alter the trigger function or internal safeties. All I did was drop in the kit I got from Triggerkit.com.

Edited February 1, 2006 by bountyhunter

[Flexmoney]

Exactly how will the Glock trigger safety prevent that ND since (by design) the safety is gone the minute a careless idiot places his finger on the trigger?

I don't know about an ND...seems like that is possible in any gun once we are running the stage (in bang mode) with the finger on the trigger.

In the Glock...

The trigger safety prevents the trigger bar from moving back unless the trigger is pressed.

If the trigger bar can't move back, then it can't clear the safety shelf in the trigger housing.

If it can't clear the safety shelf in the trigger housing, then it can't rotate down.

If it can't rotated down, then the striker cannot be released.

A Glock with out it's "trigger safety" just doesn't put fear in my heart....

Perhaps you should take another look at it. If you remove the trigger safety, all you have is spring tension to keep it from firing.

{moderator hat on...everybody, please refrain from using terms like "stupid". We don't need to do that here. Lets share information and learn for one another.}

[TimWarner]

I don't think it's just removing the trigger safety that's a problem.

It's disabling the trigger safety where you already have pretravel so short that the other safeties are permanently disabled. My opinion is that there should be SOMETHING in place to block the gun from firing if dropped/banged on something.

If you were to just disable the safety, without reducing pretravel to the point the striker is permanently cocked, trigger bar is far enough back in the housing it is allowed to travel down, and FP safety is permanently depressed, I wouldn't see a problem with that.

[Flexmoney]

Tim,

Are you sure you wouldn't see a problem with that?

Re-read my post. Without the trigger safety, no matter the configuration, there is no mechanical means of preventing the other safeties from failing. The only thing keeping the trigger bar on the striker tang is the relative strength of the striker spring.

You are right, in that the other two safeties are functional (in the stock setup), but we've lost quite a bit of margin.

[TimWarner]

Ok, I should have said I wouldn't see as much of a problem.

Technically it's not safe, but it's far safer than removing the trigger safety while all the other safeties are bypassed due to an overly short trigger pull.

[the duck of death]

The book "The Glock in Competition" states that Glock was having trouble with the drop test without the trigger safety. Bang--without no bang--with.

Something to think about.

I have shortened the pre travel but not to the point that the drop or firing pin safety doesn't work. To get the trigger safety to work it must be reworked. I see no up side in removing the trigger safety.

[bountyhunter]

Exactly how will the Glock trigger safety prevent that ND since (by design) the safety is gone the minute a careless idiot places his finger on the trigger?

I don't know about an ND...seems like that is possible in any gun once we are running the stage (in bang mode) with the finger on the trigger.

In the Glock...

The trigger safety prevents the trigger bar from moving back unless the trigger is pressed.

I guess it comes down to the definition of "safety", which I maintain a 1911 thumb safety is a safety because it makes the gun safe against the operator's miscue (ie, pulling the trigger accidentally) while a Glock trigger safety fails to prevent an ND in such a case.... which is by far, the most common reason for an ND.

If that trigger safety was added because the internal safety was insufficient to allow it to pass the "drop test"... that kind of tells me the "drop safety" doesn't do it's job and the trigger safety is a crutch for it. In that case, the trigger safety may have some value to prevent an ND in such an extraordinarily unlikely scenario.

A Glock with out it's "trigger safety" just doesn't put fear in my heart....

Perhaps you should take another look at it. If you remove the trigger safety, all you have is spring tension to keep it from firing.

I did not remove it, I just don't see it adds much safety. As I said, not having it really doesn't bother me one way or the other. I left it on mine, but I think it's basically a joke.

[oct_97]

This is just getting just stupid.

When you remove the trigger safety on a Glock you are in essence doing the same thing as removing the thumb safety on a 1911, that has a pinned grip safety. THERE IS NO OTHER SAFETY. Don't give me this "drop safety" crap, as how many of you have heard of a dropped gun going off vs how many have seen and heard of AD's while holstering hot?

Stupid things like "gluing" or removing the trigger safety as some have suggested is just dumb and I don't want to be on the same range as them. I will also not feel bad to send them home from any match I RO or chronograph at.

JM2C

+1

Tinkering like that could get yourself or someone else killed, not to mention the legal ramifications if you should accidently shoot someone with a gun without an active safety. I can't recall if I've ever felt the trigger safety on my Glocks while shooting. IF you do, then your paying attention to the wrong thing while shooting (IMHO)

Yep

[Flexmoney]

BH,

You make a good point about ND's being caused because the finger is on the go button when it should not be.

But, don't forget that many (most?) 1911 shooters, once the stage has started, have their thumb safeties turned off.

If that trigger safety was added because the internal safety was insufficient to allow it to pass the "drop test"...

I'd suggest that it provides an EXTRA level of safety.

With the Glock, the gun is mechanically prevented from firing when dropped. That can't be said about many of the other guns we see at matches.

I just don't see it adds much safety...I think it's basically a joke

Then, I can only take from that that you don't have a complete understanding of the function of the system.

The only time it doesn't add safety, is when the finger is on the trigger. And, the 1911 is in the same boat once the stage starts and the shooter has disengaged the thumb safety (VERY soon after the beep).

The largest measure of safety in these cases comes, not from the guns, but from between the shooter's ears (and the RO who is doing their job). Muzzle is safe direction. Finger out of the trigger guard.

[Clay1]

This is one the most frustrating posts in the Enos universe. People that know what they are talking about are giving you sound advise but you want to do it your way and someone might get hurt.

In IDPA all safeties must function or you don't shoot. But forget about the rules and do the right thing.

I'm done with this thread, I'm unsubscribing to this one because it has gone past what any reasonable person would consider safe. If I was SOing and IDPA match you wouldn't be welcome, if I was ROing a USPSA match you wouldn't be welcome. Don't know how to make it more clear than that.

Rick

[bountyhunter]

This is one the most frustrating posts in the Enos universe. People that know what they are talking about are giving you sound advise but you want to do it your way and someone might get hurt.

Actually, people in this thread are simply discussing the relative merits of the trigger safety. I appreciate all advice, sound or otherwise, but the only problem I have seen so far is a few people seem to get very offended if other people put up differing viewpoints.

Just my personal opinion...... but, getting called stupid has never made me warm up to somebody else's point of view.

In IDPA all safeties must function or you don't shoot. But forget about the rules and do the right thing.

Rick

Well, what is "right" is where the disconnect comes in. Personally, I did not plan to use the gun for IDPA, so I could not care less about their rules. As to the level of "unsafe" removing the trigger safety would cause? I have a couple of hair-trigger 1911's I would say are a lot more likely to ND than a Glock without it's trigger safety. I set them up that way specifically for a light trigger and they are exactly as required.... but at 2# break with only about 0.1" of trigger travel, they are definitely dangerous if handled carelessly. If you are going to throw me out for having a dangerous guns, I would give no argument on those.

The point is, comp guns or guns for sport shooting often are set up "light" and many are far more dangerous than a Glock with a 3# trigger minus it's trigger safety.

Which is why, the major over reaction received on the subject seems incongruous.

I'm done with this thread, I'm unsubscribing to this one because it has gone past what any reasonable person would consider safe.

Rick

OK

Edited February 3, 2006 by bountyhunter

[atmar]

Just my personal opinion...... but, getting called stupid has never made me warm up to somebody else's point of view.

i agree.

[TimWarner]

So... How bout them Steelers?