Uncasing PCC Rules (5.2.1.7)

[broadside72]

1 hour ago, IVC said:

The difference is that the moment you hold your handgun outside the case it's a DQ because you're never allowed to have it in your hand (unsupervised, outside the safety area), while with PCC the moment you take the bag off you have the PCC in an allowed carry position. If you wanted to make it comparable, you would have to allow carrying of handguns in your hand with the muzzle in vertical position (the only way to avoid sweeping). Only then would the argument of "no difference" stand. 

 

Handguns and rifles don't have the same safety profiles if carried in hand. From militaries, to law enforcement to any competitive shooting event, rifles and pistols are treated differently when it comes to "transport" and what constitutes "handling." 

I am not talking about "at the moment" or being able to carry then in around in the hand but a change in rules to allow you to point your handgun at the berm while removing it from your bag or holster and directly placing it in the other since it is technically no different than what you can do with a PCC. 

[broadside72]

19 hours ago, Keyst0ne said:

And, bringing the discussion full circle to my original question, pushing PCC shooters to uncase at safe tables would promote leaving PCCs stacked up on safe tables ready to unbag (or already unbagged), potentially out of sight of the competitor. Given there are no rules on leaving a gun unattended this would be legal per the rules, but have some obviously undesirable consequences.

 

That is their problem given their choice to shoot PCC. However, if they need to walk back to the table to get their rifle, then they can keep their rifle with them and carry it to the table to unbag it. 

[IVC]

1 minute ago, broadside72 said:

I am not talking about "at the moment" or being able to carry then in around in the hand but a change in rules to allow you to point your handgun at the berm while removing it from your bag or holster and directly placing it in the other since it is technically no different than what you can do with a PCC. 

Sure USPSA could change the rules this way, modify parts of section 10.5.x, and allow holstering of guns at the berm. But I would vote against such a change, as would many others. I would vote for "no berm exception for PCC" way before voting for extending handgun handling outside the safety areas. In fact, USPSA has been *strengthening* safety area requirements over the years, adding requirements for boundaries and alike. 

[broadside72]

1 hour ago, IVC said:

Sure USPSA could change the rules this way, modify parts of section 10.5.x, and allow holstering of guns at the berm. But I would vote against such a change, as would many others. I would vote for "no berm exception for PCC" way before voting for extending handgun handling outside the safety areas. In fact, USPSA has been *strengthening* safety area requirements over the years, adding requirements for boundaries and alike. 

As my original comment states, the PCC exception is stupid.

[Superkaratemonkeyfighter]

If a rule is originally created for safety how is there ever an exception to it !

this is the problem with making concessions to safety rules for any reason. 
If a rule is needed to insure safety … that’s it. 

[IVC]

13 hours ago, Superkaratemonkeyfighter said:

 

If a rule is originally created for safety how is there ever an exception to it !

 

There isn't an exception in the safety sense, it's adaptation of rules to the addition of rifles to a pistol match. 
 

Much like PCCs can be carried in hand where pistols can't, there are similar rifle-specific rules that work for rifles but not for pistols. For those of us who are not grumpy about it it's not a safety violation or exception. 

[JonasAberg]

I'm not familiar with USPSA rules but it seems to me like leaving rifles here and there along the berm wouldn't be a good idea. Might get stepped on, people resetting may stumble on it or drop something on it etc.

If one person is allowed to do it, the rest of the squad should too, meaning all of a sudden you can have 10 rifles lying around here and there.

Having designated places for storage while you wait for your turn just seems like the most common sense thing.

[Sarge]

2 hours ago, JonasAberg said:

I'm not familiar with USPSA rules but it seems to me like leaving rifles here and there along the berm wouldn't be a good idea. Might get stepped on, people resetting may stumble on it or drop something on it etc.

If one person is allowed to do it, the rest of the squad should too, meaning all of a sudden you can have 10 rifles lying around here and there.

Having designated places for storage while you wait for your turn just seems like the most common sense thing.

I don’t think laying them on the ground or “here and there”, is what we’re talking about.

[JonasAberg]

19 hours ago, Sarge said:

I don’t think laying them on the ground or “here and there”, is what we’re talking about.

 

"... finding a place along the side berm..."
in the original post just sounded kinda random to me.

[IVC]

On 1/11/2024 at 3:35 AM, Sarge said:

I don’t think laying them on the ground or “here and there”, is what we’re talking about.

 

10 hours ago, JonasAberg said:

 

"... finding a place along the side berm..."
in the original post just sounded kinda random to me.

 

If the PCC is left uncased it's either in the rack, on conveyance, or dropped ("on the ground"). Putting it on a bag or any other pile doesn't change the nature of the "storage condition" of the PCC. Same as handgun - if it's on a bag that is on the ground, it's still considered "dropped." 

 

I'm with Jonas, it's "kinda random." But either way, there are rules about how PCC can be stored, how it can be transported and how it can be picked up.