PM-9 Extractor Tuning and Mags

[GunBugBit]

I use a pair of PM-9s for Single Stack, and they have been mostly trouble free.

 

Lately, since I’ve been shooting them more than ever, I’ve experienced occasional stovepipes when doing fast doubles.

 

Malfunctions call for examining several elements and the two I’ve been spending time on are extractors and magazines.

 

The Dawson 9mm ten-round magazines are the best I’ve tried, though the Wilsons and Tripps have done well unless I up the rate of fire.

 

The Tripps are open in the top-front area, making it easy to manually empty the mags but causing hangups when trying to drop the mags after firing a couple of rounds (rarely called for but one practice match stage gave occasion to do this).  Fine for Steel Challenge though.

 

The Wilsons have narrower feed lip gaps than the others but function well, except for fast doubles.  I might try adjusting the feed lip gaps and see how they do.

 

Clean and degreased Dawsons are proving solid.  I might have been too liberal in the past with oil (my experience makes me disagree that a 1911 can be overflowing with oil and all will be ok) even though long aware that lubrication should be kept away from feed lips.  I’m being a little more minimalist with oil now, while still getting it on the parts that need it.

 

The two guns had substantially different extractor tensions from the factory, which I only recently discovered after a few malfunctions at matches.

 

So I focused on the tighter one and after a couple iterations of adjusting and live fire testing, it seems dialed in.

I did consider limp wristing but tested with intentional limp wristing and didn’t get malfunctions.  I was able to produce malfunctions when my grip was solid but the extractor hadn’t been tuned yet.

 

The other gun has yet to be tested after the most recent extractor adjustment.  It might now be slightly on the tight side but I’ll find out soon.

 

Casual plinking would not have uncovered these issues, but competition does.

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by GunBugBit

[Nc1911]

So are you saying that the tension was too tight?

  I have a couple PM9s and never had a malfunction yet, and I confess I never checked the extractor tension because they have been flawless. Hope this continues.  To add, I use Dawson and a Wilson mags. Tripp mags in 9mm gave me a fit as the top rounds worked their way forward causing a dropped round during a partial reload.

Also, my PM45 has also run like a fine watch without problems. Tripp mags for the 45.

   

[ddc]

My PM9, purchased at least 5 years ago, had an extractor that was extremely loose when performing the "put a case under the extractor on an open slide and see if it stays" test.

Multiple issues until I added tension. 

It was long enough ago that I don't recall the exact nature of the problems but it is problem free at this point.

[GunBugBit]

On 10/5/2023 at 3:35 AM, Nc1911 said:

So are you saying that the tension was too tight?

  I have a couple PM9s and never had a malfunction yet, and I confess I never checked the extractor tension because they have been flawless. Hope this continues.  To add, I use Dawson and a Wilson mags. Tripp mags in 9mm gave me a fit as the top rounds worked their way forward causing a dropped round during a partial reload.

Also, my PM45 has also run like a fine watch without problems. Tripp mags for the 45.

   

The tighter extractor did seem a little too tight.  I don’t claim I have it perfect now but it ran 100% at last Thursday’s club match.

 

Your comment on the Tripp mags describes exactly my experience.  Today I put Tripp followers and springs in some Dawson tubes.  I saw a comment from someone who did the same with Metalform mags.  This gives the round retention of that type of mag body plus the well regarded function of the Tripp followers.  I also think the Dawson springs might be a tad too strong and the Tripps seem less so.  Some of my malfunctions looked to be caused by the next round escaping the top of the mag after a feed.  This isn’t necessarily due to spring strength since feed lip gap and oil on the feed lips could contribute.

 

I’ll see how the Frankenmags work tomorrow.

 

One thing I’ll say is I’ve never had feeding issues with either gun.  Just extraction/ejection.

Edited October 8, 2023 by GunBugBit

[GunBugBit]

On 10/5/2023 at 2:31 PM, ddc said:

My PM9, purchased at least 5 years ago, had an extractor that was extremely loose when performing the "put a case under the extractor on an open slide and see if it stays" test.

Multiple issues until I added tension. 

It was long enough ago that I don't recall the exact nature of the problems but it is problem free at this point.

Glad your PM-9 runs great.  I really love shooting this gun.

[GunBugBit]

The Frankenmags (Dawson tubes with Tripp followers and springs) worked great with both guns today.  I did fast doubles and a couple of fast mag dumps.  All good.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by GunBugBit

[Haywizzle]

On 10/8/2023 at 5:59 PM, GunBugBit said:

The Frankenmags (Dawson tubes with Tripp followers and springs) worked great with both guns today.  I did fast doubles and a couple of fast mag dumps.  All good.

 

 

 

I'm glad to hear you're frankenmags ran great and I hope they have still been trouble free. I used to have a Dan Wesson with a PM 9 slide and a custom 40 cal slide. I would get stove pipes with the PM 9 slide with Dawson mags as well as stove pipes on the 40 slide with Cobra trip mags. 

 

I did the brass test and found my extractors were weak. I ended up buying a couple tools from https://www.jackweigand.com/index.html His Extractor Tension Gauge Set paired with my Lyman digital trigger pull gauge gave me good data when testing my extractors. I found both extractors at less than half tension of what was expected. I also picked up his Extractor Adjusting Tool. These tools got both slides running 100%. If you run into any problems I highly recommend the tension gauge.

[Tampa-XD45]

For comparison, my PM9 only choked when it (temporarily) had a Shok-Buff in it. 

[Speedwagon]

I recently had an issue with a pistol having failure to extract. Eventually adjusted the extractor where it ran perfectly but the process of shaking the slide and bending the extractor until the case stuck in seemed kind of like guessing to me even though it worked. 

I found this tool and this to go with it. I just got it and haven't had a chance to try it out yet but it seems like a good combination to take some trial-and-error/guess work out of adjusting an extractor. 

Here's a neat video on how it works. 

I'm a sucker for having cool tools so I had to buy this and can't wait to try it out. 

Edited January 5 by Speedwagon
Forgot something

[GunBugBit]

14 hours ago, Haywizzle said:

I did the brass test and found my extractors were weak. I ended up buying a couple tools from https://www.jackweigand.com/index.html His Extractor Tension Gauge Set paired with my Lyman digital trigger pull gauge gave me good data when testing my extractors. I found both extractors at less than half tension of what was expected. I also picked up his Extractor Adjusting Tool. These tools got both slides running 100%. If you run into any problems I highly recommend the tension gauge.

In the process of root-causing my issue, I also tuned my extractors.  One gun had significantly less tension than the other so I made them the same such that they pass the Hilton Yam test.  It was worthwhile to do that.

 

I learned about the differences between .45 and 9mm extractors in 1911s.  I also gained a new appreciation for the quality of the Dan Wesson 1911s.  I knew they were good already but now I’m tickled by the rock solid reliability after just minor adjustments, and their great shootability.  The absolute-zero creep of the triggers is a testament to the job DW did in mating the sears and hammers, which I never touched.

Edited January 5 by GunBugBit

[Haywizzle]

4 hours ago, GunBugBit said:

In the process of root-causing my issue, I also tuned my extractors.  One gun had significantly less tension than the other so I made them the same such that they pass the Hilton Yam test.  It was worthwhile to do that.

 

I learned about the differences between .45 and 9mm extractors in 1911s.  I also gained a new appreciation for the quality of the Dan Wesson 1911s.  I knew they were good already but now I’m tickled by the rock solid reliability after just minor adjustments, and their great shootability.  The absolute-zero creep of the triggers is a testament to the job DW did in mating the sears and hammers, which I never touched.

 

I agree, Dan Wesson makes a great 1911 at a very competitive price point. I was sad to sell my set on the forums here but I barely ever competed with them. My CZs and 2011s seem to get get all my attention. I would like to get another Wesson one day, maybe a long slide.