revchuck Posted December 24, 2005 Share Posted December 24, 2005 Okay, before y'all ask, yeah, I did a search. That's the reason behind the wording of the title. I just got in 1k Berry's plated .38 Special 158 grain RNs. I'd like to work up a 130 PF load that stays within .38 +P pressures from a 4" barrel. While I could shoot them in my .357s, I'd like to use my .38s as well. When I did the search, it seemed that nobody could quite make the PF without exceeding +P pressures in .38 Special brass. I also noticed that most folks were using Titegroup and Bullseye. Has anyone tried a slower powder than these? The powders I've got (so far) are TG, Bullseye, Unique, PB, 7625, 4756, 231, Longshot, and Silhouette. I'm trying desperately to find some True Blue, but have been SOL. Has anyone had any luck using these powders in this context? If not, any suggestions on which powder I might try first? My instinct is to try 5.5 grains of Longshot, which gives 17k PSI with jacketed bullets according to Hodgdon. It gave 899 fps with 158 grain Zero RNLs. Also, any recommended OAL for .38 Special and these bullets? TIA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Fay Posted December 24, 2005 Share Posted December 24, 2005 revchuck, I have had real good luck with 5. grains of Unique, I am using 158 grain Raineer RN bullet, built to 1.43 OAL with a good crimp. Hope this helps Luke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted December 24, 2005 Author Share Posted December 24, 2005 revchuck,I have had real good luck with 5. grains of Unique, I am using 158 grain Raineer RN bullet, built to 1.43 OAL with a good crimp. Hope this helps Luke Luke - Thanks! What velocity are you getting, and is it from a 4" barrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted December 24, 2005 Share Posted December 24, 2005 I used the following and it is within std 38 Special pressures (ie under 18,000psi), 158gr RN Lead 3.3gr Hodgdon Clays = 875fps in a 6", very accurate. I think 3.1gr gave me 125+pf or 800fps. So seeing as you need about that in a 4" I think my 875fps load will be about right. I am now using Hodgdon TG about 4.0gr it goes real well as well. Again a 6" but accuracy is awesome. 3" at 50y. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted December 24, 2005 Share Posted December 24, 2005 5.1 of 4756 with Rainier 158's makes 128pf out of my 5" 627. I love it for ICORE, shoots very accurate and is really clean compared to Bullseye and Titegroup. Per the IMR load data, 5.2 with jacketd 158's is 15,300 CUP. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 (edited) Berrys 158 gr CPRN Fed 100 primers 4.4 gr TiteGroup 1.500" CTG OAL 820 fps +/- 5 fps using a 4" 586. It has chrono'd as such/verified at several major IDPA matches using a 4" Model 19 and Model 66. I recently reproduced those results in my 4" Model 67. The Hodgdon stated 38 +P max charge of 4.3 gr will make 125 PF most of the time in most guns through most chrono's - I added the extra 0.1 gr last year as a safety factor after just barely making PF at the IDPA Nat'ls. The average velocity increased by 10 fps and the variance was significantly reduced (10 fps vs 5 fps) with the extra 0.1 gr powder. Mixed brass loads will yield more variance than single source brass loads. Be careful comparing other CPRN bullet recipes. The Berrys 158 gr CPRN is much longer than most (0.690" vs ~ 0.600") , so CTG OALs/resulting internal V & P/velocities will be significantly effected. Good Luck, Craig Edited December 29, 2005 by Bones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 Craig - Thanks! FWIW, I went through about 7k rounds of 4.1 grains of TG under a Zero 158 grain RNL, and it was accurate and didn't lead, but I ended up with the only flame-cut M67 I've ever seen. I'm looking for an alternate lead bullet powder now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 revchuck, Why are you shooting plated bullets? Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 revchuck,Why are you shooting plated bullets? Ivan Ivan - I want to get away from the smoke generated by bullet lube, at least in my match ammo. It seems that plated bullets will make the power factor I need at lower pressure than jacketed - plus, I haven't been able to find any .357 diameter 158 grain JRN bullets. I've shot numerous matches where the smoke has been an issue; here in southwest Louisiana (and southeast Texas) high humidity is the norm, and combine that with no wind and sunlight coming from the wrong direction or artificial lights at night matches, and you end up using the Force to hit targets after the second shot. The Force is not strong in this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Given the many health, barrel leading and visibility problems with exposed lead bullets I'm not sure why anyone would still shoot them. The price difference versus plated is not relevant. Many indoor ranges are prohibiting them - as an SO who spends a lot of time at ranges I think that's a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 plus, I haven't been able to find any .357 diameter 158 grain JRN bullets. Try Zero, the make a majic 158gr JHP, nice nose profile and not to expensive. Insane accuracy at all velocity levels. Also lower pressure than plated or Lead on my guns, or at least they appear to be lower. Ring MArgaret at Zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 plus, I haven't been able to find any .357 diameter 158 grain JRN bullets. Try Zero, the make a majic 158gr JHP, nice nose profile and not to expensive. Insane accuracy at all velocity levels. Also lower pressure than plated or Lead on my guns, or at least they appear to be lower. Ring MArgaret at Zero. I've gone through a couple of thousand of those, and while I agree about the accuracy, I find the bullets too blunt - probably more a comment on my speedloading abilities than anything else. I've also considered using their .356" 150 grain FMJ, substituting the 9mm expander in my Dillon so they'll have enough case neck tension. It's been my experience that undersize bullets require more powder, though, and that's the opposite of what I'm trying to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 (edited) My IPSC revolver load is 158gr LSWC FC Nickel Plated Fed SP Primer 4.3gr/Bullseye This load gets me 130000 PF. I found that 4.0gr/Bullseye only gave me 124000PF. These loads are shot from a 4" 686. I know you were asking for plated bullets, but I thought that I should share. Good luck with your endeavours. RePete. Edited January 5, 2006 by RePete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 To add another powder to the mix...... Try AA Nitro 100, 3.6gr with a Berrys 158. You should be close to the 130, I have only shot them in 6in bbls, but try it and see. Wickedly accurate, I use that load for ICORE and steel, and it is soft too! Good luck, DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R112mercer Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I don't use the exact same stuff but here it goes: In a Starline .38 Short Colt case using Ranier's 158 gr. PRN I use 3.2 gr. of W231 to make the 120 pf requirement of ICORE in my 5" 627. I'm not sure what the pressure is but the primer's are nice and round and the cases extract easily. Accuracy is also very nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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