Shadow 2 Hammer binding

[lennyo3034]

I am having extremely inconsistent pulls with my Shadow 2 Orange. With a 13lb mainspring, I'm getting DA pull weights from 5.5lbs to 9.5 lbs. Very noticeable when dry firing. I've had 3k rounds through the gun until this and never had an issue. I've changed mainsprings (lighter and heavier) as well as completely torn down and cleaned frame with no help.

 

I'm not 100% sure, but it seems like the hammer is binding on something. When the hammer is cocked and I pull down on it more, it definitely binds. If I do this on my TSO, it hits a hard stop.

 

Anyone run into this issue before? 

[clw42]

Take the grips off and look at it.  You should be able to see if there's something there.

[lennyo3034]

I've already pulled everything out and reassembled. Hammer, sear cage, trigger, etc.

[HesedTech]

Shadow 2 13 lb hammer spring should have a DA approximately 7 lb+ DA and around 3 SA. If it’s not consistent then you need to polish some parts. 

[Tok36]

Strange.

 

I would inspect the Main Spring Plug and the Hammer Strut and the Hammer Spring for burs.

 

Edit: I gave this some more thought. Seeing as how you have tried differnt Hammer Springs and the inconsistency persists, i would check that the Trigger Bar is not binding up. Possibly on the Trigger Bar Spring or a foreign object.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Tok36

[lennyo3034]

10 hours ago, Tok36 said:

Strange.

 

I would inspect the Main Spring Plug and the Hammer Strut and the Hammer Spring for burs.

 

Edit: I gave this some more thought. Seeing as how you have tried differnt Hammer Springs and the inconsistency persists, i would check that the Trigger Bar is not binding up. Possibly on the Trigger Bar Spring or a foreign object.

Thanks, will give that a try.

 

Any chance the hammer pin could be slightly bent?

[lennyo3034]

11 hours ago, HesedTech said:

Shadow 2 13 lb hammer spring should have a DA approximately 7 lb+ DA and around 3 SA. If it’s not consistent then you need to polish some parts. 

This is the orange version so a lot of polishing has already been done. I went 3k rounds with about a 6lb DA and 2.1lb SA. It does have the CGW reduced power trigger return spring.

[Blackstone45]

6lb DA sounds pretty light for a 13lb main spring, even on an Orange model

[GeneBray]

14 hours ago, Tok36 said:

Strange.

 

I would inspect the Main Spring Plug and the Hammer Strut and the Hammer Spring for burs.

 

Edit: I gave this some more thought. Seeing as how you have tried differnt Hammer Springs and the inconsistency persists, i would check that the Trigger Bar is not binding up. Possibly on the Trigger Bar Spring or a foreign object.

Agree with edit.  That said, you said you disassembled/reassembled the pistol so not certain.  I've seen similar, when one leg of the trigger bar spring was not in proper location.  I've seen one leg between the frame and the trigger bar, also seen one leg inside the trigger bar.  

[lennyo3034]

2 hours ago, GeneBray said:

Agree with edit.  That said, you said you disassembled/reassembled the pistol so not certain.  I've seen similar, when one leg of the trigger bar spring was not in proper location.  I've seen one leg between the frame and the trigger bar, also seen one leg inside the trigger bar.  

 

So I haven't had time to take it apart again, but I did do some dry firing. I'm thinking you guys are on to something about the trigger bar and spring. The trigger pull is nice and light at first, but after about 5 or 6 pulls, the weight starts to go up. If I cycle the slide, it basically resets and goes to a nice light pull again. 

 

Currently has a 11lb mainspring, Average of 10 DA pulls is 4lb 9oz. Fairly consistent if I rack slide between pulls. If I don't rack between pulls, the weight consistently increases and goes all the way to 9lb.

 

So cycling the slide is doing something to reset it.

[HesedTech]

On 5/2/2023 at 6:57 AM, lennyo3034 said:

This is the orange version so a lot of polishing has already been done. I went 3k rounds with about a 6lb DA and 2.1lb SA. It does have the CGW reduced power trigger return spring.

Surprised you are getting those numbers with a 13# spring, even on an orange. I did find with the Shadow 2 if the area under the sear cage where the disconnector rides up on gets dirty it will affect the DA substantially. I know you mentioned you've cleaned everything, it's just after years of CZ S2 and Tanfoglios the only thing which could cause your issues is something is rubbing against the moving parts. 

 

Personally I polish anything which moves and has contact with another surface. One exception the sear and hooks stay stock. Think about the parts that move and where they rub against as one pulls the trigger, look at all those areas (hint the hammer spring has this long strut running through it, something many forget to clean up).

 

Good luck. You know it will eventually be something simple, it always is. 

[HesedTech]

19 hours ago, lennyo3034 said:

So cycling the slide is doing something to reset it.

And what does cycling the slide do to the trigger bar? Not a rhetorical question. Look for wear.

[lennyo3034]

So I went through it again. I did find a broken firing pin spring, but doubt that would affect DA pull. Lubed everything up again and put a brand new CGW 13lb spring in. Issue seems to be resolved. Doubt it was the firing pin spring but could have been the extra lube.

 

I think cycling the slide pushes the bar down. The two polished tabs on the bar sit in the recess in the slide so maybe the slide moving causes the bar to move in a way just pulling the trigger doesn't? Not sure, just speculating. 

 

I also tested my Lyman digital gauge against a friend's. Only on a Staccato P. His showed 3.5lb whereas mine read 3.0. So maybe my gauge is off. 

[JonasAberg]

Is it possible that the trigger bar spring is finding its way underneath the trigger bar? As it goes further underneath, the trigger pull becomes harder and racking the slide somehow pushes the bar in a different way, releasing the spring...

[HesedTech]

11 hours ago, lennyo3034 said:

I think cycling the slide pushes the bar down.

Yes it does. There is a notch in the slide which coincides with those bumps/lobes on the trigger bar. As I understand it, the trigger bar moves down to not interfere with the setting of the sear and hammer hook as the slide goes back.

 

This is also why any dirt or debris between the trigger bar, lower sides and the bar spring can cause some resistance. 

 

There are some videos on youtube about the working of the system.

[Tok36]

 

User Romukom, over on the CZ forums made some good reference animations that illustrate the CZ 75 variant action timing.

CZ Action Timing

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=73586.0;topicseen

Edited May 6, 2023 by Tok36

[HesedTech]

13 hours ago, Tok36 said:

User Romukom, over on the CZ forums made some good reference animations that illustrate the CZ 75 variant action timing.

Thank you, excellent reference!