Current most effective brake? (Titan Extreme vs Apollo Max vs Hypertap)

[DukeNiemand]

46 minutes ago, Darqusoull13 said:

@DukeNiemand I'm sure you've got something on youtube or wherever as your "controlled study." It's neither statistically significant, nor sufficient to encompass the wide array of variables in play. 

At matches the consensus most effective has been and continues to be the Recoil Eliminator. 

The series of tests done by The Truth About Guns, are very well known and respected. In fact, in the first test they did way back in 2014 the Recoil Eliminator didn't place first. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/556-muzzle-device-shootout/

 

I guess this information hasn't reached the rock you've been hiding under.

[kurtm]

All this mental masturbation is cool..... I guess! So much of this depends on who is holding the rifle, how they hold a rifle, and what they are use to! For me the original J.P. Cooley comp works great I can easily double tap a 100 yard C zone steel with boring regularity. Give me a SJC and I'm all over the place. The flattest rifle I have is a practice rifle with a full weight A2 carrier and a Rolling Thunder comp! All these "best comp" threads are pointless as F! Get behind your rifle, shoot it, play around with it and then go with what works for you! You can try to "buy" better placement with the latest greatest blasty POS but it won't help you in the least! GET BEHIND YOUR RIFLE AND SHOOT!!! 

[TonytheTiger]

No need 

On 2/11/2023 at 6:01 PM, kurtm said:

All this mental masturbation is cool..... I guess! All these "best comp" threads are pointless as F! Get behind your rifle, shoot it, play around with it and then go with what works for you! You can try to "buy" better placement with the latest greatest blasty POS but it won't help you in the least! GET BEHIND YOUR RIFLE AND SHOOT!!! 

So none of us are allowed to buy and test new gear just because we want to and we enjoy it?

You'll never see me saying that the latest greatest brake will improve anyone's match placement. I'm aware of just how little it matters in the big picture.

However, to pretend some aren't better than others is false. 

 

Also, I own both the JP 2 port and 3 port. They're both less effective than the brakes discussed in this thread. You're welcome to use them, and if you made a thread about them I wouldn't storm in being angry about it. 

[Darqusoull13]

13 hours ago, TonytheTiger said:

No need 

So none of us are allowed to buy and test new gear just because we want to and we enjoy it?

You'll never see me saying that the latest greatest brake will improve anyone's match placement. I'm aware of just how little it matters in the big picture.

However, to pretend some aren't better than others is false. 

 

Also, I own both the JP 2 port and 3 port. They're both less effective than the brakes discussed in this thread. You're welcome to use them, and if you made a thread about them I wouldn't storm in being angry about it. 

I think both myself and Mr. @kurtm would agree that the time spent discussing, tinkering and otherwise not focusing on dedicated practice provides orders of magnitude less return and improvement in skills than actually doing the work to build those skills. 

From my perspective, you're welcome to do whatever. I know what made me a better competitor. 

[kurtm]

I'm pretty sure you missed the "Get behind your rifle, shoot it, play around with it and then go with what works for you!"

 

Go through 80 different brakes if that's what it takes, test and try away to your heart's desire, at some point you will find what works for you! I have tried all sorts of brakes, folks say to me try my rifle!! It is the flattest softest rifle in the world, you really need to get XXXX brake, and when I do I realize I'm glad I didn't spend my $$ on it. Not because it isn't a 12 course meal and a bag of chips, tested by NASA and approved by White labs, I'm glad I didn't, because it doesn't work for me. I'm sure that'll the stuff I use is not the latest greatest there are so much better, flow tested, etc. but what I do have works for me, and it still gives good results. At some point it is far better to go shoot a couple thousand rounds, than to keep changing a muzzle device to the latest thing. 

[DukeNiemand]

23 minutes ago, kurtm said:

I'm pretty sure you missed the "Get behind your rifle, shoot it, play around with it and then go with what works for you!"

 

Go through 80 different brakes if that's what it takes, test and try away to your heart's desire, at some point you will find what works for you! I have tried all sorts of brakes, folks say to me try my rifle!! It is the flattest softest rifle in the world, you really need to get XXXX brake, and when I do I realize I'm glad I didn't spend my $$ on it. Not because it isn't a 12 course meal and a bag of chips, tested by NASA and approved by White labs, I'm glad I didn't, because it doesn't work for me. I'm sure that'll the stuff I use is not the latest greatest there are so much better, flow tested, etc. but what I do have works for me, and it still gives good results. At some point it is far better to go shoot a couple thousand rounds, than to keep changing a muzzle device to the latest thing. 

I don't think anyone in this thread disagrees about training being paramount.

But I would also think the same logic would apply to complaining about other people trying to have a discussion about muzzle brakes. Shouldn't you be out training instead of adding noise here? It sounds like this thread is not relevant for you.

[kurtm]

A great gunsmith once said "it doesn't really matter how many holes your comp has, nor the angles of the ports nearly as much as the rounds through it"!

 

I find these days I need less practice to still be competitive due to the number rounds I have put through my comp. It allows me free time to remind people that there is a "best" for you, but not a "best".

[AKJD]

23 hours ago, kurtm said:

A great gunsmith once said "it doesn't really matter how many holes your comp has, nor the angles of the ports nearly as much as the rounds through it"!

 

I find these days I need less practice to still be competitive due to the number rounds I have put through my comp. It allows me free time to remind people that there is a "best" for you, but not a "best".

 

So how do you find what's "Best for You" if you don't do a little experimentation with different equipment?

[kurtm]

On 2/11/2023 at 6:01 PM, kurtm said:

"Get behind your rifle, shoot it, play around with it and then go with what works for you!"

Well..."The  play around with it" part was supposed to cover the test different things, but I can see that that was lost, so I will expound on it for you.

Get behind your rifle, shoot it, (this is the expanded play around with it part), see what the perceived short commings are, does it dip when the bolt closes, does it consistently recoil in a specific direction, does it bounce around in a circle, is that circle erratic. Next when you run into folks that have a better set up ask to try their rifle, if it is a lot better than yours note their set up. The trick here is you have to KNOW what your rifle does for the comparison. Once you narrow to that down start getting that stuff. Now really test the stuff that seems to work for you. Does this comp chang point of impact if one side of the comp is within an inch or two of a hard surface... You would be surprised at how many do to the tune of 3-6 MOA. Does the comp work off my support side or if the rifle is horizontal. If I shoot it really close to the ground does it throw up too much junk, does it throw up too much junk on its side close to the ground. If I were to shoot this under a dirty old car would it sandblast all the crap of the underside. Are all these things acceptable for the performance given. BUT you have narrowed the field down immensely by trying other folks set up and kind of have an idea of what will work for you. Now if you have no friends but you know what aspects of you rifle need changing you at least have a place to start. Once you have played around with it you will know what works for you, and I would stay in that window instead of buying anything of what's the best lists, I would use that $$ for more ammo to run through my best. 

Great quick story. Had an up and coming shooter tell me that the J.P. tank brake was the worst thing in the world. Rifle jumps up and down even on a bipod, is blasty and throws up way too much dirt. I asked him why he bought it and he said all the open guys said it was the very best comp for open, so he had to have it. I told him I would be happy to shoot it and see what it was doing. He brought the rifle over and a bunch of ammo. I took it out of the case and in one look knew why it wasn't working for him, it was installed 180° off. He was quite avid about social media and had written a rather scathing review of the comp and what a crap heap it was already. Yes the tank brake is directional once installed correctly and clocked for his shooting style he was ecstatic, but that real bad review is still out there. So what is the best? 

[AKJD]

4 hours ago, kurtm said:

Well..."The  play around with it" part was supposed to cover the test different things, but I can see that that was lost, so I will expound on it for you.

Get behind your rifle, shoot it, (this is the expanded play around with it part), see what the perceived short commings are, does it dip when the bolt closes, does it consistently recoil in a specific direction, does it bounce around in a circle, is that circle erratic. Next when you run into folks that have a better set up ask to try their rifle, if it is a lot better than yours note their set up. The trick here is you have to KNOW what your rifle does for the comparison. Once you narrow to that down start getting that stuff. Now really test the stuff that seems to work for you. Does this comp chang point of impact if one side of the comp is within an inch or two of a hard surface... You would be surprised at how many do to the tune of 3-6 MOA. Does the comp work off my support side or if the rifle is horizontal. If I shoot it really close to the ground does it throw up too much junk, does it throw up too much junk on its side close to the ground. If I were to shoot this under a dirty old car would it sandblast all the crap of the underside. Are all these things acceptable for the performance given. BUT you have narrowed the field down immensely by trying other folks set up and kind of have an idea of what will work for you. Now if you have no friends but you know what aspects of you rifle need changing you at least have a place to start. Once you have played around with it you will know what works for you, and I would stay in that window instead of buying anything of what's the best lists, I would use that $$ for more ammo to run through my best. 

Great quick story. Had an up and coming shooter tell me that the J.P. tank brake was the worst thing in the world. Rifle jumps up and down even on a bipod, is blasty and throws up way too much dirt. I asked him why he bought it and he said all the open guys said it was the very best comp for open, so he had to have it. I told him I would be happy to shoot it and see what it was doing. He brought the rifle over and a bunch of ammo. I took it out of the case and in one look knew why it wasn't working for him, it was installed 180° off. He was quite avid about social media and had written a rather scathing review of the comp and what a crap heap it was already. Yes the tank brake is directional once installed correctly and clocked for his shooting style he was ecstatic, but that real bad review is still out there. So what is the best? 

Yeah I have a pretty good idea how it works, obviously my “tongue in cheek” comment didn’t translate.

 

Anyways, to contribute to the thread, I used the SJC Titan for years, although effective I didn’t care for how loud it was or the blast. After reading the discussions on this forum I decided to try the Answer and prefer it. Doesn’t seem as loud and obnoxious and I like the ability to tune it to my shooing style.  I wouldn’t have found that comp if not for threads like this so thanks to those that contribute, I believe that is the intent of the forum.

[kurtm]

Why did you buy the SJC in the first place? Not being argumentative, nor poking you for it, but why did you get an SJC. 

[AKJD]

39 minutes ago, kurtm said:

Why did you buy the SJC in the first place? Not being argumentative, nor poking you for it, but why did you get an SJC. 

By reading reviews and information from this site.  Not much 3 gun where I live and 12 years ago when I started shooting competitively there wasn't really anyone I could turn to for advice so much of what I used in my first 3 gun rifle build was based off what I learned here.  I'm not the type that changes gear often, I have found what works for me, but I'm not against trying something new either.  I have attended Army, Glock, Remington, and a couple different AR armorer courses, some several times, and much of the information found here is better than what you would learn in an armorer course.  Of course having the ability to sift through the chaff helps.  There is a lot to choose from when it comes to equipment, being able to learn from others experiences may help someone find what works best for them.  What seems like mental masturbation to you may be a great help to someone else.  I fully understand your point about getting behind the gun, but you have to get the gun first.

[kurtm]

Fair enough! It sounds like you had a good base to start from. I guess the point I was trying to make is that way too many folks buy the "best" from internet lists and then are disappointed when it doesn't work for them. I have tried, the whole time I have been in this game, to think about the new shooters and what influence "we"  have on them, and I feel that "what is the best"  threads do a tremendous disservice to them. 

[TonytheTiger]

On 2/13/2023 at 9:16 AM, Darqusoull13 said:

I think both myself and Mr. @kurtm would agree that the time spent discussing, tinkering and otherwise not focusing on dedicated practice provides orders of magnitude less return and improvement in skills than actually doing the work to build those skills. 

From my perspective, you're welcome to do whatever. I know what made me a better competitor. 

I agree. If all you want to do is place higher at matches the "best" brake is not important. 

However, I consider gear testing a fun hobby adjacent to my match shooting and don't care that it's not that important.  In the same way that you do other gun related things that take time away from dry fire and practice, like hunting and match directing.

In the old days of this forum I remember the best gear threads outnumbered technique threads 10 to 1. But these days we get two threads a month and this one is about brakes, not practice, so here we are.

If the OP starts a technique or practice thread I'll answer in that one, on topic, and to the best of my ability.

[onlyupfromhere]

@TonytheTiger - How do you like your Unrivaled Technologies brake? I'm building a new comp rifle and figured I might as well try out a new brake. I've only used an A2 & SJC Titan (what my current rifle uses), but I've been waffling between an APA Answer / Bastard brake and the Unrivaled Tech brake.

I like that both of those are tunable without needing to drill holes.

[TonytheTiger]

I like it a lot. I think my Hypertap has slightly more recoil reduction than the UT, but the ease of fine tunability makes up for it. Size and weight are a little unfortunate, but not a deal breaker for me. I wish I could say I've shot an Answer back to back with them for a direct comparison but I have not.