Deactivating the grip safety on a XDM.

[Joe4d]

2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I didn't realize it was legal to disable the firing pin block safety's, e. What rule references that? 

 

Saying some guns come with out a FP block is not the same as being allowed to remove one. I think I like IDPA's safety rules better. There is a rule saying you can disable the grip safety as long as the primary safety is fictional. I see nothing about disabling any other safety being allow. 

Going on old knowledge here,,, But Was fairly common to disable FPB on 1911's series 80's. Just basically had to remove them and put a polished spacer plate in, Some of the designs wernt so reliable. Some worked fine... I did it to my Para's,,, although in hindsight the once or so of trigger pull didnt matter. It did make cleaning easier.
IIRC it was technically illegal in IDPA,,  and an observant safety inspection could rack the slide and see if it had the hole in it or not.
There were just so many series 70 guns and slides out there, I dont think the rule was ever enforced.
For that matter one could claim the key locks are visible safety devices... Usually the first thing people chucked on Springfields was the locking MSH

[HesedTech]

2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

What rule references that? 

Production D4 22 must not be disabled, SS D5 23 Permitted but not required, CO D7 22 must not be disabled, Limited D2 & D3, and Open D1 neither required, permitted, or required if installed to not be removed (it can be removed). 

 

The point is if a FPB is installed by the factory only Production and CO are required to have it installed for USPSA competition, it is only an option in SS and Limited and Open have no mention whatsoever of the feature. Only a visible safety is required, that works, in these two divisions. 

 

2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

Saying some guns come with out a FP block is not the same as being allowed to remove one. I think I like IDPA's safety rules better.

 

Opinions don't count in competition, only results. You have also pointed out why my CO gun (Shadow 2) is legal in USPSA but not in IDPA; rules differences. I have a totally separate gun and rig for IDPA; including a fishing vest. And if you want to really get twisted compare USPSA to IPSC rules.  Think of it this way, If I play the board game Monopoly I can't use the same rules as Risk.

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by HesedTech

[Racinready300ex]

18 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

Going on old knowledge here,,, But Was fairly common to disable FPB on 1911's series 80's. Just basically had to remove them and put a polished spacer plate in, Some of the designs wernt so reliable. Some worked fine... I did it to my Para's,,, although in hindsight the once or so of trigger pull didnt matter. It did make cleaning easier.
IIRC it was technically illegal in IDPA,,  and an observant safety inspection could rack the slide and see if it had the hole in it or not.
There were just so many series 70 guns and slides out there, I dont think the rule was ever enforced.
For that matter one could claim the key locks are visible safety devices... Usually the first thing people chucked on Springfields was the locking MSH

 

I get that it's easy to do, I'm just wondering what rule says were allowed to disable safety. Or is it a they didn't say we can't so we can thing. If that's the case why did we specifically spell out that you can delete a grip safety? Maybe there should be a list of what safety's you can't remove. 

 

It is illegal to disable that in IDPA. If you have a 70 series with out it you're good. But if it's a 80 it has to function. 

[Racinready300ex]

30 minutes ago, HesedTech said:

Production D4 22 must not be disabled, SS D5 23 Permitted but not required, CO D7 22 must not be disabled, Limited D2 & D3, and Open D1 neither required, permitted, must if installed not be removed.

 

The point is if a FPB is installed by the factory only Production and CO are required to have it installed for USPSA competition, it is only an option in SS and Limited and Open have no mention whatsoever of the feature. Only a visible safety is required, that works, in these two divisions. 

 

 

Opinions don't count in competition, only results. You have also pointed out why my CO gun (Shadow 2) is legal in USPSA but not in IDPA; rules differences. I have a totally separate gun and rig for IDPA; including a fishing vest. And if you want to really get twisted compare USPSA to IPSC rules.  Think of it this way, If I play the board game Monopoly I can't use the same rules as Risk.

 

 

 

 

So SS D5 23 says "permitted features" And lists firing pin blocks. That's saying you're allowed to have a firing pin block, not that you're allowed to disable it. 

 

I see nothing in Limited or open about safety's. So I guess the logic is, if it's not spelled out like in Prod then it's legal? If we take that to the extreme with no rules about disabling safety's you can disable any safety minus the grip safety as that has it's own rule. So take the little dingus off your glock, pull the firing pin block out of your sig. What ever. 

 

I wasn't saying we should use IDPA's rule book in uspsa. IDPA says you can't disable safety's. I'm saying that might be a better approach. 

 

Edit to add, if you if your Shadow makes weight it should be legal in IDPA. I used to run one in IDPA CO.

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Racinready300ex

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

Wow Lolol.    

[Racinready300ex]

right

[HesedTech]

54 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

That's saying you're allowed to have a firing pin block, not that you're allowed to disable it. 

Racin…

 

I assume you’ve been in the USPSA sport for a while, but I would encourage you to read and discuss with seasoned ROs and RMs in your Area to actually go through the rules. Maybe even send a note to the National Board and get a ruling if this concerns you. 
 

As far as my Shadow 2 goes, it was never legal for IDPA and yes weight is an issue. 
 

Play the games, learn the rules and enjoy. 
 

This thread is way over time. 

[Racinready300ex]

12 minutes ago, HesedTech said:

Racin…

 

I assume you’ve been in the USPSA sport for a while, but I would encourage you to read and discuss with seasoned ROs and RMs in your Area to actually go through the rules. Maybe even send a note to the National Board and get a ruling if this concerns you. 
 

As far as my Shadow 2 goes, it was never legal for IDPA and yes weight is an issue. 
 

Play the games, learn the rules and enjoy. 
 

This thread is way over time. 

 

Here I am trying to learn the rules. Clearly this isn't a rule that's spelled out in the rules it's one of those gray area's of we've always done this. Like IDPA I guess. 

 

Not really any need in contacting DNROI for clarification, I'll just leave my firing pin blocks in the guns that have them. I see no gain in removing them. 

 

The season here is over, if I think of it next year I'll ask a RM to show me the rule. 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Racinready300ex

[Racinready300ex]

27 minutes ago, HesedTech said:

Racin…

 

I assume you’ve been in the USPSA sport for a while, but I would encourage you to read and discuss with seasoned ROs and RMs in your Area to actually go through the rules. Maybe even send a note to the National Board and get a ruling if this concerns you. 
 

As far as my Shadow 2 goes, it was never legal for IDPA and yes weight is an issue. 
 

Play the games, learn the rules and enjoy. 
 

This thread is way over time. 

.

You do at least understand the confusion right?

 

We have a rule that specifically says you can remove grip safety's in Limited and open. Why does this exist? 

 

Now there is no rule that says you can remove the FP block. But, there is also no rule saying you must leave the firing pin block safety in place in Limited and open. So we're saying that means you can remove that safety. So, back to the question above, why do we have a rule that says you can remove the grip safety? The limited and open appendix's don't say you can't remove a GS, and they don't say you must have them. Just like the firing pin block. 

 

So with this logic to simplify the rule book, we could remove the section about the grip safety. You'd still be able to remove it because the equipment section doesn't say you need it. Or the other possibility is the original intent was to only allow you to disable the grip safety and not any other safety's.

 

Lots of people waste time polishing the FP block, and buying lighter springs. it would be much easier to just remove them in these divisions. We should probably make this more well known, I'm sure I'm not the only one that just assumed you need to keep those parts. 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Racinready300ex