Deactivating the grip safety on a XDM.

[Canman]

I have been using a piece of tape that works fine. Just wondering if there is a way to permanently do it.

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

17 minutes ago, Canman said:

I have been using a piece of tape that works fine. Just wondering if there is a way to permanently do it.

What division are you using it in?    Uspsa CO and production prohibits deactivating the grip safety  D4 22.1 and D 7 22.1 

[MikeRussell]

Hold it down with tape, drill through the grip & safety,  then pin it in place. That's what we did with one I shot in Limited for a while. Just keep in mind that it's hardened steel and will ruin cheap bits. 

[RJH]

10 hours ago, Canman said:

I have been using a piece of tape that works fine. Just wondering if there is a way to permanently do it.

 

Are you having trouble deactivating it? I'm only wondering because I'm a guy who has to pin my 1911 group safeties, but I've never had an issue with the xd/xdm grip safety. I think I would try one with a bump before I tried to disable it if I was having issues, just in case I ever wanted to shoot it and carry-ops or production. 

[Racinready300ex]

10 hours ago, OpenshooterAclass4lyfe said:

What division are you using it in?    Uspsa CO and production prohibits deactivating the grip safety  D4 22.1 and D 7 22.1 

 

Is it even legal in Limited or Open? We're not talking about a 1911 with a thumb safety. Granted striker fired guns these days are basically SAO with no safety anyway.

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

58 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Is it even legal in Limited or Open? We're not talking about a 1911 with a thumb safety. Granted striker fired guns these days are basically SAO with no safety anyway.

In open and limited it is legal to pin a grip safety.  

[N3WWN]

I'm in agreement with some of the others that disabling one of the primary safeties is not something I'd want to do.

 

My XDMs all have a built up glue+grit grip job and I was able to keep all of my grip safeties (factory stock, no bump) working and don't have any problem disabling them.

 

Perhaps if we were to know why you're disabling it we could provide some suggestions.

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

I don’t see anything wrong with disabling the grip safety.   People have been doing it since the 1911 came out over a 100 some years ago.   The only issue is if it’s legal for the division you’re wanting to play in or not.  

[HesedTech]

8.1.2.3

, the term “safety” means

the primary visible safety lever on the firearm (e.g. the thumb safety on a 1911 type handgun).

In the event of doubt, the Range Master is the final authority on this matter. This safety must be on

while the firearm is loaded in the holster or loaded in any other

 

I don't shoot XDM, however if I was the RM the question is does the trigger shoe safety equal "the primary visible safety?" If it does, good to go on disabling the grip safety. Personally, for competition, I believe it does. For a primary carry gun I'd leave it working.

 

Forgot to add, for CO and Production it must not be disabled, Limited and Open okay.

Edited September 22, 2022 by HesedTech

[Racinready300ex]

25 minutes ago, OpenshooterAclass4lyfe said:

I don’t see anything wrong with disabling the grip safety.   People have been doing it since the 1911 came out over a 100 some years ago.   The only issue is if it’s legal for the division you’re wanting to play in or not.  

 

1911's have thumb safety's XDM's do not. That's comparing apples to oranges. 

 

 

The rule says if you disable the grip safety the primary safety as descried in 8.1.2.5 is operable. 8.1.2.5 describes "a primary visible safety lever on the firearm" And gives the example of the thumb safety on a 1911. So unless the XDM in question has a thumb safety you cannot disable the grip safety based on the way the rules are written. 

 

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

9 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

1911's have thumb safety's XDM's do not. That's comparing apples to oranges. 

 

 

The rule says if you disable the grip safety the primary safety as descried in 8.1.2.5 is operable. 8.1.2.5 describes "a primary visible safety lever on the firearm" And gives the example of the thumb safety on a 1911. So unless the XDM in question has a thumb safety you cannot disable the grip safety based on the way the rules are written. 

 

They have trigger safeties.   Just like the glock.  The trigger safety is the primary safety on those types of pistols.  Trigger safeties fall under that.  

Edited September 22, 2022 by OpenshooterAclass4lyfe

[RJH]

5 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

1911's have thumb safety's XDM's do not. That's comparing apples to oranges. 

 

 

The rule says if you disable the grip safety the primary safety as descried in 8.1.2.5 is operable. 8.1.2.5 describes "a primary visible safety lever on the firearm" And gives the example of the thumb safety on a 1911. So unless the XDM in question has a thumb safety you cannot disable the grip safety based on the way the rules are written. 

 

 

I'm not too sure. The Dingus on an XDM trigger could be considered a primary safety. Just because the example given is of a thumb safety on a 1911, that does not mean that a primary safety has to be a thumb safety, that's just one common example. 

 

Now whether or not the Dingus on an XDM is the primary safety may be up for debate. But it is definitely a "visible safety lever" and as long as your finger is off the trigger, that safety is on so in all those aspects it fits 8.1.2.5. I just don't know for sure about the "primary" part

[Racinready300ex]

Just now, OpenshooterAclass4lyfe said:

They have trigger safeties.   Just like the glock.  Trigger safeties fall under that.  

 

I wouldn't call that a primary safety level which is how it's worded. Your right, other guns don't have safety's. Look at the 320, no thumb safety, no trigger safety, no grip safety. That doesn't mean you can disable all of those things on other guns. 

 

To me disabling the grip safety is disabling the primary safety on that firearm. But as @HesedTech pointed out what will matter is what the RM thinks the primary safety is.

 

The OP could consider trying to make his GS easier to deactivate then he doesn't need to worry about it. That's what I do for my 1911's in IDPA.  

[Racinready300ex]

Another thought, if you keep using tape and some ass like me calls it illegal wouldn't you just have to fix it before shooting the next stage? Meaning take off the tape. Vs if perinatally modified it'll mean shoot a different gun?

 

 

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

2 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

Another thought, if you keep using tape and some ass like me calls it illegal wouldn't you just have to fix it before shooting the next stage? Meaning take off the tape. Vs if perinatally modified it'll mean shoot a different gun?

 

 

If someone at my match was using grip tape to pin the safety then I would switch them to open for the remainder of the match and inform them of the issue so they could correct it for next time.  

 

  Me as a sometimes RM and a full time MD a trigger safety is the primary safety for a glock and xdm type pistols that have trigger safeties.  

[Racinready300ex]

 

2 minutes ago, OpenshooterAclass4lyfe said:

If someone at my match was using grip tape to pin the safety then I would switch them to open for the remainder of the match and inform them of the issue so they could correct it for next time.  

 

  Me as a sometimes RM and a full time MD a trigger safety is the primary safety for a glock and xdm type pistols that have trigger safeties.  

 

I think you missed my point here. 

 

Imagine, someone not agreeing with you. It's crazy right? That RM/MD says gun can't be used as is, and you need to fix it. Tape will be easier to fix at the safe table. 

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

1 minute ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

 

I think you missed my point here. 

 

Imagine, someone not agreeing with you. It's crazy right? That RM/MD says gun can't be used as is, and you need to fix it. Tape will be easier to fix at the safe table. 

The easiest solution to this problem.  Like I do when I have a pertinent question that I want a definitive answer to is to ask Troy.   Then you have it in writing.    But since this guy who asked the question in the original post is a local shooter at both the clubs I help run I think he has his answer about what to do for his local matches at the least until he can get a more definitive answer from the head honcho himself.  

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

4 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

 

I think you missed my point here. 

 

Imagine, someone not agreeing with you. It's crazy right? That RM/MD says gun can't be used as is, and you need to fix it. Tape will be easier to fix at the safe table. 

But since the primary safety is the trigger safety for a glock wouldn’t common sense say that it would be the trigger safety for any other trigger safety pistols?     The rules are a base line for common sense judgments.  

[Racinready300ex]

1 minute ago, OpenshooterAclass4lyfe said:

But since the primary safety is the trigger safety for a glock wouldn’t common sense say that it would be the trigger safety for any other trigger safety pistols?     The rules are a base line for common sense judgments.  

 

So back to the 320. My gun has a firing pin block can I disable all safety's because sig did?

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

2 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

So back to the 320. My gun has a firing pin block can I disable all safety's because sig did?

Seems like you’re grasping at straws now.  
 

Have a good day. 

[Racinready300ex]

47 minutes ago, OpenshooterAclass4lyfe said:

Seems like you’re grasping at straws now.  
 

Have a good day. 

 

The point is common sense doesn't matter it's what the rule says. I can't disable safety's because another gun doesn't have them, or just because some other gun can. The smart move, like you mentioned is get it in writing because not everyone thinks the same which was the hole point of my post. 

 

I say perinatally modify it, he'll be fine. Most likely no one will notice anyway. 

[Joe4d]

6 hours ago, RJH said:

 

Are you having trouble deactivating it? I'm only wondering because I'm a guy who has to pin my 1911 group safeties, but I've never had an issue with the xd/xdm grip safety. I think I would try one with a bump before I tried to disable it if I was having issues, just in case I ever wanted to shoot it and carry-ops or production. 

I only rarely had a 1911 problem,, but have never had an XDM problem.. I would think you might want to work on your grip instead of the gun

[HesedTech]

6 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

So unless the XDM in question has a thumb safety you cannot disable the grip safety based on the way the rules are written. 

The example is not to say it has to have a “thumb safety” like the 2011. The example is to say the primary safety has “to be visible,” like the 2011 thumb safety is visible. Since so many striker guns these days have trigger safeties, like Glock, they are “visible.” As the rule states the RM has final say at the match, however I would bet the shooter would win a protest at a higher post match level. 

 

Disabling the firing pin block would put gun in open or limited just like doing the same with a 2011 (yes I know 2011s aren’t normally used in Production or CO) grip safety. The firing pin block removal is a normal thing in those categories, especially with Tanfoglios. CZs, as in Shadow 2, and TS don’t even come with a firing pin block. 
 

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by HesedTech

[MikeRussell]

To all of you guys arguing about safeties...

 

I shot '19 L10 Nats with a pinned grip safety on a XDM 5.25 and everything was just fine. Just as it was in Limited at LA Gator and MS Classic.

 

The "dingus" on the trigger is the same as the one on a Glock and is the primary safety, the grip safety is a secondary just as it is on a 1911. 

[Racinready300ex]

14 hours ago, HesedTech said:

The example is not to say it has to have a “thumb safety” like the 2011. The example is to say the primary safety has “to be visible,” like the 2011 thumb safety is visible. Since so many striker guns these days have trigger safeties, like Glock, they are “visible.” As the rule states the RM has final say at the match, however I would bet the shooter would win a protest at a higher post match level. 

 

Disabling the firing pin block would put gun in open or limited just like doing the same with a 2011 (yes I know 2011s aren’t normally used in Production or CO) grip safety. The firing pin block removal is a normal thing in those categories, especially with Tanfoglios. CZs, as in Shadow 2, and TS don’t even come with a firing pin block. 
 

 

 

I didn't realize it was legal to disable the firing pin block safety's, e. What rule references that? 

 

Saying some guns come with out a FP block is not the same as being allowed to remove one. I think I like IDPA's safety rules better. There is a rule saying you can disable the grip safety as long as the primary safety is fictional. I see nothing about disabling any other safety being allow. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Racinready300ex