RL1100 excess powder spillage help.

[Cuz]

It seems my manually operated press is spilling powder everywhere. After thoroughly cleaning the press, the attached pic is of my shell plate after loading 100 rounds.  Yes, just 100 rounds!  What is going wrong?

 

I’m using TightGroup and dropping 3.6 grains so the cases are barely half full. Randomly weighed charges are all between 3.50 and 3.70 which I think is acceptable. Scale is accurate to 0.02 grains. I’m using the Mr. Bullet Feeder powder funnel, and One Shot case lube so there is very little sticking. Brass is dry tumbled clean and pre-processed to deprime and size. 
 

All advice is greatly appreciated. I will give Dillon a call later in the week, but am hopeful someone here can help. 
 

Thanks,

Cuz

 

 

[AHI]

I know you said you were using a mister bullet feeder. Are you using a powder ck die? If so remove it.

Next ck all the bolts / screws on the powder measure. Next clean press and watch closely. To see were the powder is coming from.

You may find your just going to fast. 

 slinging the powder out as the case advances.

Edited September 22, 2021 by AHI

[Cuz]

37 minutes ago, AHI said:

I know you said you were using a mister bullet feeder. Are you using a powder ck die? If so remove it.

Next ck all the bolts / screws on the powder measure. Next clean press and watch closely. To see were the powder is coming from.

You may find your just going to fast. 

 slinging the powder out as the case advances.

AHI,

im not using a powder check die, and my pace is pretty slow. I’m coming from 20+ years on a 550 press, I’d guess my pace is about 10 minutes per 100 rounds which is pretty slow for this press. 

[HOGRIDER]

Cuz:

As AHI pointed out, if everything's adjusted correctly and your not going too fast; these simple zip ties work excellent!

 

Was loading 4.0g of N320 today for some test 9mm test rounds, and can't remember seeing any spillage whatsoever on the press/shellplate.  And I was loading at a normal pace.

 

[HesedTech]

1 hour ago, Cuz said:

It seems my manually operated press is spilling powder everywhere.

Been running a 1050 at multiple speeds and I have never seen that much spillage, even when I have a press jam. 
 

Since the press is new I suspect the shell plate is either binding or not tight enough. I would experiment with different tensions from the hold down collar. Run the press without any powder or primers and see if it jerks as you run the handle. 
 

The shell plate should rotate smoothly. 
 

Tough to diagnose over a blog though. 

[Cuz]

Is the general consensus that powder is spilling out of the case during shell plate rotation?  Or leaking out of the powder dropper?  I guess I’ll need to shoot some video of the powder drop and bullet drop section after another cleaning. That’s the only place where there is a case with powder and no bullet. 

[AHI]

First you have to determine wats happening. As I said clean off the shell plate . Now watch real closely.

Is the powder accumulation from "after drop"? ( powder still coming after the case is lowered) Or is it 

being slung out on rotation? The zip ties Hogrider suggested would be my first recommendation. First 

we have to find the source of the leak.

[HOGRIDER]

Cuz:

I think AHI is spot on with his assessment.  Where's the leak coming from?  And with the amount of powder accumulating on the shell plate you showed above, it should be easy to see the leak!

 

IMO, with all your years of using the 550 which I'm thinking uses the same or very similar powder measure as our 1100s, I can't really see this type of spillage coming from the powder drop if it's set up correctly!

 

Video a run and you'll see it!

 

Good luck!

[Cuz]

32 minutes ago, AHI said:

First you have to determine wats happening. As I said clean off the shell plate . Now watch real closely.

Is the powder accumulation from "after drop"? ( powder still coming after the case is lowered) Or is it 

being slung out on rotation? The zip ties Hogrider suggested would be my first recommendation. First 

we have to find the source of the leak.

Totally agree with having to find the source. I figured using video might be better as I could study it closely to see what’s going on. Looks like I’ll have to clean it again tonight and pay close attention. 

[HesedTech]

Looked up this problem and found this, if the steel drop funnel is not pressed all the way up to the slide it can catch powder in the gap and spill it. 

 

Check this video out he explains what was found while updating older powder measures.

 

 

[AHI]

Ck the powder funnel for a forren object. 

[Cuz]

4 hours ago, HesedTech said:

Looked up this problem and found this, if the steel drop funnel is not pressed all the way up to the slide it can catch powder in the gap and spill it. 

 

Check this video out he explains what was found while updating older powder measures.

 

 

Thanks, I'll definately check it out when I get home.

 

[Cuz]

19 hours ago, HOGRIDER said:

Cuz:

As AHI pointed out, if everything's adjusted correctly and your not going too fast; these simple zip ties work excellent!

 

Was loading 4.0g of N320 today for some test 9mm test rounds, and can't remember seeing any spillage whatsoever on the press/shellplate.  And I was loading at a normal pace.

 

 

What size are those zip ties?

And, what exactly do they do?  Stabilize the case between stations?

Is that the only two places you use them?

 

Thanks.

 

[Cuz]

Ok, I have more information.  Apparently, this may be a "loading rate" issue.

When I cleaned everything up, and pulled the handle very slowly to watch where the powder was falling, there really wasn't any, at least not for the 30 or so rounds I watched before I got bored.  I would say my rate was basically 6 seconds for a full cycle of the handle.  That's 10 rounds/minute, which is 600 rounds/hour.  While that may sound like a decent clip I can promise you it was painfully slow.

 

So, I started timing different rates and observing powder spillage.  I increased my rate to 20 rounds/minute (3 seconds/cycle) and still had virtually no spillage.  So, then I set the timer again and cycled like I normally load and it turns out I was pulling the handle at a rate of about 40 rounds/minute, and the spillage was back.  Maybe I was just going WAY TOO FAST.

 

So, now I'm wondering, for you manual loaders, how many rounds per minute is your normal loading pace?  I did this by setting a timer for 1:03 so I had 3 seconds to hit the start button, and then grab the press handle and wait for the timer to hit 1:00 before pulling the handle.

 

I'm not asking you how many rounds you can load in a minute, but rather, I would like to know how many rounds per minute is your normal loading pace.  It would also help if you let us know what you have for a press.  I guess the rate would be different on different presses.

 

On my RL550, the fastest I could ever go was about 400 rounds in an hour.

 

I will say, that with the bullet feeder full, and a couple hundred cases in the case feeder it is HARD to go slow.

[HesedTech]

16 minutes ago, Cuz said:

Maybe I was just going WAY TOO FAST.

No you weren't.

 

With an Ammobot drive I load 9mm at 1600 rnds an hour and could go faster, but found this is the most reliable pace. At this speed using various powders ranging from very fine, like Clean Shot and Sport Pistol to TG with zero (or at least not noticeable) spillage issues with the Dillon measure.  The only spillage issue happens when the press gets a jam, normally due to brass that failed to slide properly into the shell plate, and it comes to a halt, thus throwing powder out of the open cartridge.

 

I have polished everything possible, the top and bottom off the bar, the inside of the main funnel and the MBF funnel exterior to make everything run smooth.

 

Have I had issues? Yes, only due to normal wear of running it hard. The main body has galled a couple of times where the bar slides causing a jam, but that's about it. I would estimate I've run close to 40K or more (I don't keep count) with this particular powder measure.

 

Point being, you should be able to pull the handle as fast as humanly possible and expect very little powder spillage. Anything else means there's a problem with the unit or setup.

 

Again it's really hard to diagnose anything over an internet filled with opinions. If you haven't done so already, call Dillon and they will send you new parts.

 

BTW here's a good video of how the 1100 can run fast using good old pull power:

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by HesedTech

[HOGRIDER]

1 hour ago, Cuz said:

 

What size are those zip ties?

And, what exactly do they do?  Stabilize the case between stations?

Is that the only two places you use them?

 

Thanks.

 

Cuz:

These are from Lowe's:  https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-100-Pack-8-in-Cable-Ties/50005722

 

They may also be available at WalMart.  As shown they are 8" long; and measure about .177"/4.5mm wide.

 

IMO, the only place for powder spillage is between station #5 and #6; but the ties also help stabilize the case with a bullet sitting on top from #6 to #7 for seating.

 

As depicted in my pic above, I only use them between #5 and #7.

Edited September 22, 2021 by HOGRIDER
update

[AHI]

Tighten the shell plate till it will not rotate. Then loosen tIll it indexes smoothly.

Now this is hard to explain. If you watch a auto drive closely it slows down on the up stroke 

Right as the plate indexes.  Now if you manually operate. The press using a similar rithim you

Basically can go as fast as you can pull the Handel. With No auto drive I load 900+ an hour

 

 

 

[HOGRIDER]

1 hour ago, Cuz said:

Ok, I have more information.  Apparently, this may be a "loading rate" issue.

When I cleaned everything up, and pulled the handle very slowly to watch where the powder was falling, there really wasn't any, at least not for the 30 or so rounds I watched before I got bored.  I would say my rate was basically 6 seconds for a full cycle of the handle.  That's 10 rounds/minute, which is 600 rounds/hour.  While that may sound like a decent clip I can promise you it was painfully slow.

 

So, I started timing different rates and observing powder spillage.  I increased my rate to 20 rounds/minute (3 seconds/cycle) and still had virtually no spillage.  So, then I set the timer again and cycled like I normally load and it turns out I was pulling the handle at a rate of about 40 rounds/minute, and the spillage was back.  Maybe I was just going WAY TOO FAST.

 

So, now I'm wondering, for you manual loaders, how many rounds per minute is your normal loading pace?  I did this by setting a timer for 1:03 so I had 3 seconds to hit the start button, and then grab the press handle and wait for the timer to hit 1:00 before pulling the handle.

 

I'm not asking you how many rounds you can load in a minute, but rather, I would like to know how many rounds per minute is your normal loading pace.  It would also help if you let us know what you have for a press.  I guess the rate would be different on different presses.

 

On my RL550, the fastest I could ever go was about 400 rounds in an hour.

 

I will say, that with the bullet feeder full, and a couple hundred cases in the case feeder it is HARD to go slow.

Cuz:

I have to ask................are you going faster than our own member chgofirefighter?

 

https://youtu.be/Gj00nOLqIX0

 

https://youtu.be/vzuQd0j9bWE

 

The second video gives good views of the round coming out of the powder station and bullet feeder station without a lot of spillage.  He's also using the Arredondo shell stabilizer:

 

https://www.arredondoaccessories.com/product/shell-stabilizer-3/

 

 

[AHI]

In one of the videos HR posted . The rithm is being used. It's very suttle but it's their.

I  can go every bit as fast with no spillage.

Edited September 23, 2021 by AHI

[HOGRIDER]

1 hour ago, HesedTech said:

No you weren't.

 

With an Ammobot drive I load 9mm at 1600 rnds an hour and could go faster, but found this is the most reliable pace. At this speed using various powders ranging from very fine, like Clean Shot and Sport Pistol to TG with zero (or at least not noticeable) spillage issues with the Dillon measure.  The only spillage issue happens when the press gets a jam, normally due to brass that failed to slide properly into the shell plate, and it comes to a halt, thus throwing powder out of the open cartridge.

 

I have polished everything possible, the top and bottom off the bar, the inside of the main funnel and the MBF funnel exterior to make everything run smooth.

 

Have I had issues? Yes, only due to normal wear of running it hard. The main body has galled a couple of times where the bar slides causing a jam, but that's about it. I would estimate I've run close to 40K or more (I don't keep count) with this particular powder measure.

 

Point being, you should be able to pull the handle as fast as humanly possible and expect very little powder spillage. Anything else means there's a problem with the unit or setup.

 

Again it's really hard to diagnose anything over an internet filled with opinions. If you haven't done so already, call Dillon and they will send you new parts.

 

BTW here's a good video of how the 1100 can run fast using good old pull power:

 

 

 

And HesedTech shows GT loading at a good clip using CFE Pistol.  Don't think he mentioned it, but he's probably using around 4gr of powder with that 147g bullet.......

 

 

[HOGRIDER]

15 minutes ago, AHI said:

Tighten the shell plate till it will not rotate. Then loosen tIll it indexes smoothly.

Now this is hard to explain. If you watch a auto drive closely it slows down on the up stroke 

Right as the plate indexes.  Now if you manually operate. The press using a similar rithim you

Basically can go as fast as you can pull the Handel. With No auto drive I load 900+ an hour

 

 

 

AHI makes an excellent point that I think most of us implement; but never really think about!

 

For me, once I reach full upstroke, I pause for just a split second to glance at the right side of the shell plate, look at the bullet orientation at station #7, then glance at the 10" monitor showing the powder in the case.

 

Point is I'm also slowing and doing a very slight stop at the top before pulling the handle again.  And as AHI points out, the automated videos I've watched closely also exhibit that momentary slow/pause.

 

 

 

[HOGRIDER]

15 minutes ago, AHI said:

In one of the videos HR posted . The rithm is being used. It's very suttle but it's their.

I  can go every bit as fast with no spillage.

The second video I posted above shows a detailed view of the cases coming out of the powder drop with no powder spillage to speak of!  And if you look closely there's just a bit of cartridge "wiggle" at station #8 which is irrelevant at this stage of the process.

 

Nice close-up of #chgofirefighter making ammo!

[Cuz]

2 hours ago, AHI said:

Tighten the shell plate till it will not rotate. Then loosen tIll it indexes smoothly.

Now this is hard to explain. If you watch a auto drive closely it slows down on the up stroke 

Right as the plate indexes.  Now if you manually operate. The press using a similar rithim you

Basically can go as fast as you can pull the Handel. With No auto drive I load 900+ an hour

 

 

 

900 rounds/hour may seem fast, but it’s only 15 rounds a minute. That’s actually pretty slow compared to my times which is why I thought I was going too fast. 
 

At your current pace, how many rounds do you load in 1 minute?

 

[Cuz]

10 hours ago, HOGRIDER said:

Cuz:

I have to ask................are you going faster than our own member chgofirefighter?

 

https://youtu.be/Gj00nOLqIX0

 

https://youtu.be/vzuQd0j9bWE

 

The second video gives good views of the round coming out of the powder station and bullet feeder station without a lot of spillage.  He's also using the Arredondo shell stabilizer:

 

https://www.arredondoaccessories.com/product/shell-stabilizer-3/

 

 

Hogrider,

when I watched the video I didn’t think I was going that fast. But, as with shooting, the timer doesn’t lie, so I broke out my timer app and checked. Best I can tell from watching and timing different sections of the video is that he is cycling the press at a rate of 6.5 cycles / 10 seconds. Then 12.5 cycles / 20 seconds, and then again at  18 cycles / 30 seconds. So, 18 cycles/30 sec = 36/minute = a rate of 2160/hour. 
 

When I experienced all my spillage, I was timing my rate at 40 cycles/minute which equals a rate of 2400/hour, so, yes, I was going faster than he was going in the video. 
 

I will research that Arredondo stabilizer, but will probably try the zip ties first since I have some. I will most likely also slow down a bit and save the high speed yanking for when I’m just processing brass. 
 

[Cuz]

For those of you using the Arredondo shell stabilizer, how well is it working for you?