Who has real world experience- Mark 7 Revolution - Comparison to Dillon

[EricBu]

FNG here.  An individual on High Road suggested I post this here.   I read through some of the threads on it, and they were helpful, but I really am looking for some opinions based on actual operation of the two presses.  So here goes:

 

I'm getting ready within the next 6 months to buy two new presses. These will either be Dillon 1100s/1050s with autodrives, bullet feeder, etc, basically fully loaded. Or Mark 7 Revolutions (The blinged commercial variant from Mark 7/Lyman). I've done the standard googling, read all of the history et al. However, most of what's out there is fan boy comments, and there is not much recent regarding direct experience.

Specifically, looking for anybody who has gone from an automated Dillon (1050, 1100) to a Revolution, runs both side by side, or a Revolution owner who had previous Dillon experience, but chose the Revolution anyway. If you're a Mark 7 guy, sell me on why I should go with the Revolution, if you're a Dillon guy, sell me on why I should stay blue.

The specific points I'm looking for:

1. I already know I can make safe, solid, high quality, <15 SD pistol and revolver ammunition on the Dillon. How about the Revolution?

2. The major contributing factor for considering the Revolution is the auto priming system....dump a thousand primers in the hopper and go...but is it reliable? I can live with 1 out of a thousand rounds having a flipped primer, I'll find those in QA and that's within my tolerance...but not 1 out of a hundred.

3. Wear and tear, parts availability, and uptime. I have enough Dillon parts on hand to damn near build a complete press...things that I've learned the hard way need to be readily available. I will be starting over from an institutional knowledge perspective with the Revolutions. What is my over all reliability going to be with them? Can I keep commonly needed parts on hand? Or are they difficult to find parts for in general? How is the support? I know they struggled early on, but by all accounts, since Mark 7 was purchased by Lyman, things have improved, what is your real world experience with this support? Here, I'm looking for post Lyman purchase support experience. Not overly concerned about warranty, but more interested in long term support even if it's pay to play. Am I going to be able to call a technician up and tell them about a problem, and get real help, and availability to a needed part?

4. Caliber changeover. From the videos I've watched, and user manuals I've read it seems slower and more complex than on a Dillon, is my perception wrong? It may be a matter of training and gaining experience, or it may just be a huge pain. This isn't a deal breaker, but I need to understand how my process may be changed...will I need to plan on doing say.....20K rounds at a time to make a caliber change worthwhile? Or is it just a matter of maybe taking an extra hour to do a complete changeover, which would not really impact me.

5. Overall impression of fit, finish, quality of construction, etc. Dillon has a well established history of function over form. It may be ugly, but it works well, and works with very little fiddling once configured and established. I worry about the Revolution being the opposite....looks fantastic in a brochure...did they choose appearance over function?

6. Maintenance. Maintenance on the Dillon is super easy...hit it with the air compressor every day, grease it every month, and every couple of months do a more thorough PM, looking for wear and tear and such. Maybe once a year, pull all the linkages apart and regrease, reassemble, realign, and fire it up. Is the Revolution going to be similar? Is it a platform that will require constant tinkering and adjustment? Is there more involved maintenance?

 

I did consider a Camdex, but I can only budget one, and I'm not comfortable with their advertised powder throw accuracy.


Anyway, if you've lasted through this entire long winded read, any comments will be appreciated.

[Sigarmsp226]

Eric - Welcome to the forum Sir.  Reading your post you have asked a lot of great questions and there are very smart and very experenced folks here that post in this reloader section that will be along to answer every question you have. For me I can only provide you my short experience related to one of your questions….

 

Background - I am 61 years old and have loaded for over 35 having started on a RCBS Single Stage that I dang near wore out. About 15 years ago I purchased my first Dillon - a 550.  Kept it for about two years then decided I wanted the extra state and auto indexing so I sold the 550 (should have kept for small runs and load development but that is hind sight now) and bought a 650…..I love my 650’s (actually have a second 650 that is still brand new in the box because when Dillon decided to discontinue I loved the press so much I promised myself I would have a complete second system as back up). This happens when you start getting older and have OCD.  You but what you love - for that just in case I need it itch….Sorry - got off track and was making this about me…..

 

About 18 months ago I had just purchased an RL1100 (just before COVID’s impact related to reloading machines and accessories hit bottom) and upon its arrival and before I could open the sealed box this forum group made me realize that for just a little more money I could have “The Mercedes” of reloading systems so I sold my RL1100 for what I paid and ordered a Mark 7 direct from Lyman/Mark7.  Sydney (Sales at Mark7) told me my timing was good and four months later my Mark7 arrived….Now at this point every company was starting to feel the real effects of COVID (longer lead times due to supply chain issues for required raw materials or compoients needed to build their machines) and I think this is where my ultimate demize “seed got planted”…..

 

Being OCD and having loaded on a Dillon 650 (that at this point I still had and continued to load on) I knew what a reliable loader could do when it was “tweaked” and set up right (Dillon customer service pre-COVID was second to none).  The Mark7 is the most beautiful loader in look, precision, quality, and feel that I had ever touched, seen, or owned….This machine had a movement like a Swiss Watch - seriously - soomth as butter and tight right out of the box…Quality that far exceeded my Dillon 650 and I never opened my RL1100 to compare….After a slow and methodical 4 day set up  because of my OCD and because I work fulltime (this was because of me not the machine) and following every recommendation from forum members who owned these machines I started reloading. 
 

From the start I struggled with two processes - case feeder and primer slide/feeder.  After just a couple of weeks I realized my Dillon case feeder on my 650 would fit and work with my Mark7 so I put it on and that problem went away. A week later I had a new Dillon case feeder in route for the Mark7. It arrived, I installed, and that problem was fixed but in the mean time I continued to struggle with my primer feed system.  I am still loadng manually so I can manage my cycle time, force, and can stop when something did not feel right and on this machine it was so smooth you could feel when something was not right.  Long story short - After working with Mark7 for three months related almost strictly around my primer system, and receiving a few replacement parts to try (remember COVID supplier shortages are in full swing now) and four primer detonations while loading - I gave up and sold my Mark7 machine that had less than 2000 rounds loaded on it. 
 

Lessons Learned -

1- The Mark7 machine is a true masterpiece of quality craftsmanship. Second to none -IMO and if I were to buy again it would be a Mark7 over the Apex 10 due to sheer beauty and craftsmanship. (It is the only loader I would take time to clean and polish each time I finished using it).

2 - This machine has a lot going on with each cycle so be ready to “tweak and re-tweak” but if you have the patience and can get it running right others here who have this machine will tell you they will amke you a TON of ammo - FAST…..

3 - Understand that we are still living in a COVID supply chain issue world as replacement parts may have long lead times. 
4 - And develop a personal contact at Mark7. They have a great staff but they are stretched thin, even thinner now I am sure with COVID.  I was used to speaking to a knowledable person everytime I called - when I called and I know this has changed since COVID but for me this was where I failed. I did not develop that relationship with the right peroson(s) at Mark7 so many times my issues went unanswered until my second or third email or call. When it was answered it was done with  the highest level of profession and knowledge - but sometimes this took many days….

 

I might own a 9 or 10 station press again one of these days but for now after selling the Mark7 - I purchased another RL1100 (my son has one also) and I am very happy with the RL1100.  Is it a Mark7 - no - not even close - but it was $1000 less than a Mark7 but  it works - it required a few very minor tweaks but it runs and runs (manually) and there is a HUGE support group right here on this forum for both machines that can help you with anything that goes wrong or needs tweaking…..

Edited September 17, 2021 by Sigarmsp226
Because My grammer and spelling sux’s

[EricBu]

Thanks for the comments.   I too am a long time blue press user....30 years reloading.  Started when I was stationed in CA in the Army and couldn't buy handgun ammo.  Same path, RCBS single stage, then in the late 80s bought a Dillon 450 with reenlistment cash, upgraded to a 550, then 650s/750s.  My default was to buy big blues, and run autodrives.  I also looked at Camdex, but am leaning towards the Mark 7 Revolution for a variety of reasons.

 

Any of your presses use autodrives and bullet feeders?  Which Mark 7?  The primer system, was it the standard primer system or the automated hopper based system that sorts/aligns?  Primer detonations are....concerning, so I am very interested in which primer system the one you owned used.  What kind of sensors, if any, do you use?   The powder system that caused problems for you, was it the digital powder measure?  Was it a sensor/electronics problem, or mechanical?   As you noted, for 30 years I've been in the habit of instant support from Dillon.  Unlike others who have had complaints during Covid, I have never experienced an issue with their support.  I've bought 2 new presses from them in the last 18 months, tons of accessories and parts, and have had to call them maybe a half dozen times for broken parts across 5 presses, and each time it was quick, courteous, and the replacement parts were shipped within 24 hours.  Now, I understand Mark 7 may not be that good.....but what was your overall comfort level with their support?   Did you feel like they just didn't particularly care?  Or was it a matter primarily of being stretched thin because of Covid, and just simply overwhelmed?     Were they really making a legitimate effort to solve your problem?  Or were they just trying to get you to go away?

[Sigarmsp226]

Eric - Sorry for not being more clear - My unit was the EVO unit with the standard priming system.  I did not have any sensors on my EVO either.  I did not have issues with the powder system - only the case feeder and the stock primer "slide" system.  I also do not have automation nor have I ever on any of my units. but I did run a MBF on my EVO and it ran perfectly.  I have plans to add it to my RL1100 eventually but right now I am in no rush.  

 

As for Mark 7's support - I will say that I blame the support (or lack there of) because of COVID. 

 

IMO (and this is only my opinion - others here can share their own experiences) Mark 7 has a couple of very knowledgeable staff members that know these machines, unlike Dillon Precision where most everyone you speak to knows what they are talking about or can grab someone who does.  When I called or emailed with my issues I was always directed to one gentleman and he knew his stuff so I am guessing that in time Mark 7 will build a stronger customer support team.  Based on his availability there were times I received the needed support in hours and then there were times it took a second phone call or email 1-3 days after the first email or call message.  Again this is only my experience and my issues did occur during the peak of COVID in the U.S.       

 

I am sure other forum members will provide you more answers over the weekend to your questions.  I am excited to see where you go with this project.  

 

ALSO - Thank you for your service Sir.  I have a son in the Air Force right now and could not be a more proud of him.....

[sethw]

I run both machines  Mark 7 revs and  1100rl fully automated. I dont always have time to email but would be willing to help either of you gentlemen out with any questions or simple fixes for stupid problems we have come across. sethw@battalionammo.com

[slavex]

I run a Revo and I'm a first gen Revo owner at that. I also have an Mk7 automated RL1050. 

I had growing pains with the Revo as a first gen owner, the priming system worked at the start, but stopped being reliable pretty quick. Mk7 replaced the entire priming system for me with the newer style with the index pin on the toolhead that engages the priming disc. They also sent me the new toolhead. Since then I've had very few issues, less than I've had with my 3 different 1050s (and I mean less than any one of the 3, not all of the 3). 

I load at 2500 to 3000RPH on the Revo and process at 3500 on the 1050. I think the 1050 is fine for processing, but the Revo is miles ahead for loading. 

Parts availability can be an issue, but I don't fault Mk7 on that, that seems to be the current state of affairs for most companies right now, and during their big growth and whey Lyman took over, it was to be expected. Things are definitely better now. 

Also willing to help with questions on the Revo, best place to ask is the FB group for Mk7 owners

[chgofirefighter]

Check out YouTube for some comparisons between the Dillon 1100 and Mark 7 Evo!   Don't get the 1050 if you're heading the Dillon route, but do get the 1100 instead.  I have personal experience with Dillon 1100 and the Mark 7 Evo, in fact, I had them both running side by side fully loaded and automated, bullet feeder, you name it.  I mainly was using the 1100 for processing brass and loading 9mm Major ammo but encountering a few hick-ups with the Dillon's toolhead activated priming system I decided to part ways with the Dillon, sold it as a complete package and stayed with just one press Mark 7 Evo.  The fact is that I didn't need 2 presses, instead I should've purchased the Dillon CP 2000 for processing brass.  The issue with the CP 2000 is that it can't be automated, at least to my knowledge.  Dillon purchased Ammobot, but I have yet to see Dillon selling the Ammobot automated system.  The Evo is a beast of a machine, beautifully crafted, well made and with better features, tighter tolerances, CNC made, press.  The issue with Mark 7 is that it doesn't have the aftermarket support that Dillon has and parts availability.  

 

Each press has its pros and cons, and honestly you can't go wrong with either press.  If your budget allows it get the Mark 7 but honestly speaking, you can't  go wrong with Dillon either.  I do like some features of the Dillon that I miss such as the quick disconnect powder, and the simplicity of the press oh and lets not forget the nice upgrades that you can do it.  

 

 

[SolomonVaquero]

I have mostly the same situation and questions as EricBu, but only can buy one new press at the moment.  I would like to add one question: Is the new Lyman cast press as good as the earlier Mark 7 fully machined unit? I will only be loading pistol caliber ammo for the time being in enough quantity to employ the big press. Thanks!

[erwos]

12 hours ago, SolomonVaquero said:

I have mostly the same situation and questions as EricBu, but only can buy one new press at the moment.  I would like to add one question: Is the new Lyman cast press as good as the earlier Mark 7 fully machined unit? I will only be loading pistol caliber ammo for the time being in enough quantity to employ the big press. Thanks!

Yes, it is as good, if not better due to the Primer Xpress compatibility built in and coming from the factory with a second guide rod. The real complaint people have with the Apex is that setting up priming can be a challenge, more so than the Evo. I've used both, and my experience with the Apex priming system is that you just need to spend the time up front making it perfect and then you'll be good to go from then on out. It's not even all that hard to do, you're just setting two stops and a primer depth pin, the former you can do on a totally empty press. Unsure why this is such a big problem for people.

 

Put it this way... I have an Evo, and I'd never even consider the 1100 now that the Primer Xpress is a thing. I will probably buy an Apex just for 9mm at the end of the year and put a Primer Xpress on that, too.

[SolomonVaquero]

13 hours ago, erwos said:

Yes, it is as good, if not better due to the Primer Xpress compatibility built in and coming from the factory with a second guide rod. The real complaint people have with the Apex is that setting up priming can be a challenge, more so than the Evo. I've used both, and my experience with the Apex priming system is that you just need to spend the time up front making it perfect and then you'll be good to go from then on out. It's not even all that hard to do, you're just setting two stops and a primer depth pin, the former you can do on a totally empty press. Unsure why this is such a big problem for people.

 

Put it this way... I have an Evo, and I'd never even consider the 1100 now that the Primer Xpress is a thing. I will probably buy an Apex just for 9mm at the end of the year and put a Primer Xpress on that, too.

Thanks erwos. That helps.

[EricBu]

I know it's been a while, but with Covid and ordering delays and waiting for backordered stuff...and set up time, and putting time on them...it just took a while to follow up.   So I ended up purchasing two Mark 7 Revolutions, with all the sensors.  I ordered them with the big Case Feeders, and 38/357, 9mm/38super, 45 acp, 300 BLK, and 44/45Colt conversion kits along with the Mr. Bullet feeder pro conversion kits for each, plus an extra MBF conversion for 45 and 38.  Total Cost with shipping for both was ~ 28K.

 

They were shipped via freight, and Fed Ex sent a semi truck right up to my shop.  They were well packed on a single pallet, with the main base of each machine in a crate. 

 

First, there is no comparison, the build quality, fit and finish, and function are light years beyond Dillon.  I mean, it's not even in the same category.  But that's as it should be, as I could have bought 10 base dillon 1050s or RL1100's for the same cost.

 

Setup was easy and straight forward.  Between their manual, and their set up videos, I had the first one up and rolling ammo in a matter of hours.  It took a bit of tuning and tweaking, not unexpected, before I was ready to crank out a production batch of ammo.

 

I had some very trivial issues.  One bad sensor, a damaged primer feed component, and some fine tuning questions about the MBF.   Mark 7 support was fantastic, got to me in 24 hours with answers.  In the case of the sensor, they had the replacement shipped within 24 hours of my original support email.  They definitely live up their version of the "No BS" warranty.

 

Things I would have done differently:

 

About the only change I would make in hind site is I probably would have left the case feeders off the order entirely, which would have saved a couple grand.   Don't get me wrong, their case feeders are EXCELLENT.    Best I've ever worked with  hands down.  They just work, and they are FAST.   They easily keep up with high speed runs.  The only reason I would have left them off the order is that I am already heavily invested in Dillon Case Feeders, and have several.   They easily work with the Mark 7.  The Mark 7 large case feeder conversion kits are expensive!!   So at least for now, I will likely use a Dillon case feed to do 300 BLK.   The Dillon case feeds do not keep up with the mark 7, so if you want to load at more than 2K rounds an hour, I think you want to go with the big mark 7 feeders.

 

The other con for me is that Mark 7 does not have a huge selection of caliber conversion kits.  Once upon a time, prior to being bought by Lyman, they made conversion kits to order, however they no longer do that.

 

All in all, I'm super happy with my choice.  There is still room on my benches for Dillon for sure, and I will likely buy a Super 1050 to dedicate to .30-06, .30-30, and .45-70, and an RL1100 for the various 32 families.

 

[Ultimatetoday]

On 9/15/2021 at 9:48 AM, EricBu said:

FNG here.  An individual on High Road suggested I post this here.   I read through some of the threads on it, and they were helpful, but I really am looking for some opinions based on actual operation of the two presses.  So here goes:

 

I'm getting ready within the next 6 months to buy two new presses. These will either be Dillon 1100s/1050s with autodrives, bullet feeder, etc, basically fully loaded. Or Mark 7 Revolutions (The blinged commercial variant from Mark 7/Lyman). I've done the standard googling, read all of the history et al. However, most of what's out there is fan boy comments, and there is not much recent regarding direct experience.

Specifically, looking for anybody who has gone from an automated Dillon (1050, 1100) to a Revolution, runs both side by side, or a Revolution owner who had previous Dillon experience, but chose the Revolution anyway. If you're a Mark 7 guy, sell me on why I should go with the Revolution, if you're a Dillon guy, sell me on why I should stay blue.

The specific points I'm looking for:

1. I already know I can make safe, solid, high quality, <15 SD pistol and revolver ammunition on the Dillon. How about the Revolution?

2. The major contributing factor for considering the Revolution is the auto priming system....dump a thousand primers in the hopper and go...but is it reliable? I can live with 1 out of a thousand rounds having a flipped primer, I'll find those in QA and that's within my tolerance...but not 1 out of a hundred.

3. Wear and tear, parts availability, and uptime. I have enough Dillon parts on hand to damn near build a complete press...things that I've learned the hard way need to be readily available. I will be starting over from an institutional knowledge perspective with the Revolutions. What is my over all reliability going to be with them? Can I keep commonly needed parts on hand? Or are they difficult to find parts for in general? How is the support? I know they struggled early on, but by all accounts, since Mark 7 was purchased by Lyman, things have improved, what is your real world experience with this support? Here, I'm looking for post Lyman purchase support experience. Not overly concerned about warranty, but more interested in long term support even if it's pay to play. Am I going to be able to call a technician up and tell them about a problem, and get real help, and availability to a needed part?

4. Caliber changeover. From the videos I've watched, and user manuals I've read it seems slower and more complex than on a Dillon, is my perception wrong? It may be a matter of training and gaining experience, or it may just be a huge pain. This isn't a deal breaker, but I need to understand how my process may be changed...will I need to plan on doing say.....20K rounds at a time to make a caliber change worthwhile? Or is it just a matter of maybe taking an extra hour to do a complete changeover, which would not really impact me.

5. Overall impression of fit, finish, quality of construction, etc. Dillon has a well established history of function over form. It may be ugly, but it works well, and works with very little fiddling once configured and established. I worry about the Revolution being the opposite....looks fantastic in a brochure...did they choose appearance over function?

6. Maintenance. Maintenance on the Dillon is super easy...hit it with the air compressor every day, grease it every month, and every couple of months do a more thorough PM, looking for wear and tear and such. Maybe once a year, pull all the linkages apart and regrease, reassemble, realign, and fire it up. Is the Revolution going to be similar? Is it a platform that will require constant tinkering and adjustment? Is there more involved maintenance?

 

I did consider a Camdex, but I can only budget one, and I'm not comfortable with their advertised powder throw accuracy.


Anyway, if you've lasted through this entire long winded read, any comments will be appreciated.

Eric, I can’t tell you anything about the Dillon loaders, but I can tell you why not buy the Mark 7 revolution.  I’ve been running one for almost a year, and would never buy another one again.  If you want the details, reach out and I’ll fill you in.  Ultimatetoday@gmail.com

[SSGJohnV]

14 hours ago, Ultimatetoday said:

Eric, I can’t tell you anything about the Dillon loaders, but I can tell you why not buy the Mark 7 revolution.  I’ve been running one for almost a year, and would never buy another one again.  If you want the details, reach out and I’ll fill you in.  Ultimatetoday@gmail.com

I'd like to know if there is anything we can do to help with those feelings, sir. Feel free to shoot me a PM or an email at jvlieger@markvii-loading.com or call in the main line and ask for John. 

 

We have customers in the field with millions of rounds loaded on Revolutions and I own one myself.