Certificates? Second Hand?

[Chuck Merriam]

I have seen a certificate for some work I would like to do to one of my guns, but feel weird knowing I am paying so much less for work that should cost more. What are the general feelings of this practice? I am a businessman myself and know the cert. was probably donated.....or should I consider this par for the course and just do it!

[Merlin Orr]

Whoever donated the cert did so knowing it would be redemed.....And probably a good way to look at it (from the givers view) is that it is just like the guys on the corners always give a little of thier "product" away knowing that they WILL BE BACK later with money in hand.

And quit flipping me off!

[warpspeed]

Vendor donated it knowing it would be redeemed.

Seller picked it up off prize table thinking he could sell it.

Vendor knew that as well when he donated it.

It is all goooood.

[Flexmoney]

Free market...

The issuer of the certificate applied a value to it the he/she was comfortable with. They are willing to trade X amount of product or service for said certificate. They are happy, or they wouldn't have issued it.

The buyer and seller of the cert. agree on a marketable price for the cert. The buyer trades a certain amount of $omething...the seller decides if that something is worth the trade. When a price is agreed upon, both parties are happy and the trade is made.

Giddyup!

(Sorry if that seemed like a preachy lesson.)

[dvc40jim]

I'm not certain that I agree on all accounts. It is true that the sponsor sets a reasonable retail value that is placed on a certificate. In most cases it is a matter of trade with the match organizers for vending space and or shooting slots.

But when certificates are later sold at far below market value... the value of the work is greatly reduced. Best example I have specifically from prize table fodder is when we used to put enhanced grips on the table, sometimes 10 and 15 at a time. Our sales went way down while shooters just waited for a grip to pop up on the classified page at less than distributor cost for a factory grip.

In many instances items from a prize table are sold at less than retail, but not typically below dealer price. We can easily see that some items, such as bullets and primers are often sold at way less than retail price.... and in many instances vendors and even manufacturers suffer and some go out of business.

I think that a good number of shooters actually look at the prize tables as a way to get items they might not normally purchase, or items that they didn't realize they "needed". I think that the hawks looking for the highest dollar value item left on the table are a small number.

Hard to say if it is "fair" or not but I do know that it drives what items are donated to prize tables. I'm certain that if a major gun manufacturer saw thier donated frames selling for half of what they are worth, and noticed a decrease in sales then frame donations would cease.

But... I did see a great deal on a Glock Certificate on the USPSA Classified page... heck of a bargain!

[Chuck Merriam]

I love the free exchange of ideas and info on the web and I think forums have increased my knowledge 10 fold. Thanks for the input and different viewpoints. I too value good workmanship and a fair market price for services....it is what I expect from my own business. I see Jim's point...it would be a little dissapointing to see the item donated going so low below real value. In an ideal situation I would like for the person who earned (won) the cert to be the one to use it. I think what makes USPSA shooting as a sport so much fun and rewarding for me is the gathering of good people. I enjoy seeing the people, sharing ideas and talking almost as much as the shooting. And if you are wondering Jim, it is I who called you after seeing that same certificate at such a low price! Thanks All:)

...PS I will change the Avitar...it is a little in yo face..

[standles]

I guess I will fall in the camp that says it is ok.

There are retail prices, wholesale prices, and actual cost of the item. The vendor most likely will not put a value on the certificate below the actual cost of the item. While it can be done (loss leader item) it is not common.

So saying that it hurts the vendor to have thier certificate auctioned off for below retail doesn't seem to wash. If the vendor "donated" the item pure and simple then he already decided to "give" away his product and or time.

If the Vendor "swapped" a certificate to the MD for advertising,booth space, etc. etc. then he valued it as such and again gave it away. The vendor was compensated according to his desires by trade from the match and the match was compensated by having a large better prize table.

One aspect of this is the publicity for a vendor for his product. Many times I donated product (choosing to asorb the actual cost of the item) in order to promote a new product or stir up more interest. The returns for that donation came in the form of sales to other individuals who saw said product and now wanted it for themselves. It also paid off in increasing the exposure of the product in a new or lagging sector of the economy which propped up or increased sales.

So.. Sell it give it to a friend or use it yourself. Once it is donated the intrinsic value was decided on by the vendor and the vendor is happy with the tradeoffs.

Steven

Ps.

The one area where this scenario may fall apart is in a market where one vendor has the monopoly or has formed alliances with sub-vendors to price fix thier goods. Example of this would be a certain company in the scuba diving industry that only sells to authorized resellers and will nto allow them to sell below retail or they pull thier distributorship. However, in this case I doubt they would donate many freebies or certs.

[dvc40jim]

From a vendor standpoint, I hate the see prize tables or the items on them dilluted. There is a huge gap between match staffs and what is acceptable for prize table donations.

One match will allow and gladly accept a % off product or work, while another match will not. Other matches will accept donations of condiments or catalogs at listed retail while some other matches demand wholesale value of product placed on prize tables. Others still will buy back from the vendors who support them while other matches buy product from vendors who donate nothing but a % off product purchased.

The next big gap is the price in order to "sponsor" a match. It is less expensive to sponsor a stage at the Nationals then to sponsor a stage at one of the Area matches, while other Area match sponsors cost even less. Some Area matches will allow product given to every shooter in a shooting packet to count as contributions to the prize table, while other require it to be product that actually goes on the table.

All of this serves to dillute the quality of prize tables across the board. It forces vendors to donate smaller amounts, lesser products, or to bow out completely. While that "rant" is off topic, it does have impact on the outcome of the topic.

If a shooter buys a certificate from the winner of the same... in most cases both of them are winners. The vendor does not lose his or her shirt since it was an agreeable donation of product or service. However the gap is created when a fair market value is reduced. If I elected to sponsor those shooters who represent my company with enhanced 2011 grips at my cost and they in turn sold them below fair market value, not only would I lose money in the initial donation, but in residual sales as well.

Fact remains... the $100.00 certificate is a good deal, and I will gladly redeem it as promised.

[shred]

Certs don't always get redeemed.. some rarely get redeemed. Some sponsors expect and/or count on that.

But, the whole point of sponsoring is advertising-- to get the sponsors name and product out amongst the shooters that can use it. In that case, redeeming a certificate is the best thing you can do with it-- you can tell other people what you got and how much you like it, and maybe they'll go that sponsors way when it's their turn to buy something.

I always try and pick something off a prize table that I want and I used to look down a little on the 'grab-the-biggest-value-and-resell-it' shooters (ok, I still do, just a little ), but at least a few of them actually rely on that money to finance more shooting, plus it does get the resold thing into the hands of somebody that actually wants it.