10$ reward - Gun Won't stop doubling, HELP!!!!!

[Dowter]

If you can come up with a solution to my gun doubling problem and I use it I will send you ten dollars.  Considering the hundreds I've spent trying to get it to work, $10 is a bargain.

Here is my guns story.

Originally It had all factory STI parts.  The only thing that was modified was that the sear spring was sharpened a little so that the trigger was lighter.

It doubled.

I put in a Wilson Combat sear spring.

It doubled.

I took it to a VERY competent gunsmith who put a new tri-glide sear spring and disconector on it and he worked on it.

It doubled.

The gunsmith said that the problem was that I was not letting the trigger return enough. He said that I should shoot like Rob Leatham and let my finger come all the way off the trigger and not just forward enough to let the trigger reset.

I tried to shoot like Leatham.

It doubled. (It double less but still doubled)

When I do shoot slowly, I don't seem to remember it doubling very often. But shooting slowly isn't exactly the reason that I bought an STI Edge.

Out of desperation I took the sear, sear spring and hammer out of my Para (which had the sweetest trigger pull) and transplanted it into the STI.  The disconnector was the tri-glide disconnector.  

IT DOUBLED!!!!

I'm pretty much at a loss as to what the problem can be.

Here are my grasping at straw guesses.  

I had a swenson safety put in and it took a lot of smithing to get it to fit.  Could it be that the the safety is somehow rubbing up against something the wrong way?

Could it be that I have too much oil in the trigger mechanism?

Could it be the actual trigger itself and not the mechanisms?  It's factory original STI.

If it was a gypsy who cursed my gun can I just make the gypsy reverse the curse or do I have to cut the gypsys head off to make the curse go away.

All help would be greatly appreciated.

[Dowter]

If you can come up with a solution to my gun doubling problem and I use it I will send you ten dollars.  Considering the hundreds I've spent trying to get it to work, $10 is a bargain.

Here is my guns story.

Originally It had all factory STI parts.  The only thing that was modified was that the sear spring was sharpened a little so that the trigger was lighter.

It doubled.

I put in a Wilson Combat sear spring.

It doubled.

I took it to a VERY competent gunsmith who put a new tri-glide sear spring and disconector on it and he worked on it.

It doubled.

The gunsmith said that the problem was that I was not letting the trigger return enough. He said that I should shoot like Rob Leatham and let my finger come all the way off the trigger and not just forward enough to let the trigger reset.

I tried to shoot like Leatham.

It doubled. (It double less but still doubled)

When I do shoot slowly, I don't seem to remember it doubling very often. But shooting slowly isn't exactly the reason that I bought an STI Edge.

Out of desperation I took the sear, sear spring and hammer out of my Para (which had the sweetest trigger pull) and transplanted it into the STI.  The disconnector was the tri-glide disconnector.  

IT DOUBLED!!!!

I'm pretty much at a loss as to what the problem can be.

Here are my grasping at straw guesses.  

I had a swenson safety put in and it took a lot of smithing to get it to fit.  Could it be that the the safety is somehow rubbing up against something the wrong way?

Could it be that I have too much oil in the trigger mechanism?

Could it be the actual trigger itself and not the mechanisms?  It's factory original STI.

If it was a gypsy who cursed my gun can I just make the gypsy reverse the curse or do I have to cut the gypsys head off to make the curse go away.

All help would be greatly appreciated.

[BrianH]

I ain't no gunsmith, but you the next time you take it to one have them check the disconnector notch in the slide, the disconnector hole.....I dunno...

It seems odd that a known good trigger mechanism will fail in a different gun....that tells me its prob. the slide or frame in the STI....

[BrianH]

I ain't no gunsmith, but you the next time you take it to one have them check the disconnector notch in the slide, the disconnector hole.....I dunno...

It seems odd that a known good trigger mechanism will fail in a different gun....that tells me its prob. the slide or frame in the STI....

[Phil Dunlop]

Dowter,

does it double for other shooters too?

I'm only guessing too, but if it was a mechanical problem and the half cock notch was ok shouldn't the hammer follow to half cock?

I just cured an annoying hammer follow problem on my own gun which was due to the disconnector brushing the feet of the sear and stopping it resetting. This seemed only to occur in matches! and caused the hammer to follow the slide, but the gun never fired the second shot.

P.D.

[Phil Dunlop]

Dowter,

does it double for other shooters too?

I'm only guessing too, but if it was a mechanical problem and the half cock notch was ok shouldn't the hammer follow to half cock?

I just cured an annoying hammer follow problem on my own gun which was due to the disconnector brushing the feet of the sear and stopping it resetting. This seemed only to occur in matches! and caused the hammer to follow the slide, but the gun never fired the second shot.

P.D.

[Dowter]

Here is another guess of mine.

The frame might be too tight against the sear.  That would explain why two different sear/hammers failed.  The friction on the sear from the frame might slow down the re-engaging of the sear allowing the hammer to drop twice.

[Dowter]

Here is another guess of mine.

The frame might be too tight against the sear.  That would explain why two different sear/hammers failed.  The friction on the sear from the frame might slow down the re-engaging of the sear allowing the hammer to drop twice.

[2alpha]

Very hard to diagnose a problem like this from long distance but,  if you put some overtravel and some take up in the trigger and run a lighter recoil spring than you are now your problem might go away. That's assuming that everything is done right mechanicaly otherwise.

Shot in the dark.

JJ

[2alpha]

Very hard to diagnose a problem like this from long distance but,  if you put some overtravel and some take up in the trigger and run a lighter recoil spring than you are now your problem might go away. That's assuming that everything is done right mechanicaly otherwise.

Shot in the dark.

JJ

[Bill Schwab]

Dowter,

What kind of lubricant are you using?  I've had problems when using oil and now use Chip McCormick's trigger lube.  Just for giggles why don't you disassemble the frame, degrease everything, reassemble and see if the hammer follows, but don't shoot it much without lubricant.

Bill

[Bill Schwab]

Dowter,

What kind of lubricant are you using?  I've had problems when using oil and now use Chip McCormick's trigger lube.  Just for giggles why don't you disassemble the frame, degrease everything, reassemble and see if the hammer follows, but don't shoot it much without lubricant.

Bill

[Dowter]

I think that I may have discovered the culprit part in my gun.  It's the trigger.

One good thing has come from all of this.  For the first time I've bothered to figure out how a 1911 works.  I took all of the pieces apart and played with them to see how they work.  "This thing" does "this" when "that" happens.  Very educational.  

From this I was able to eliminate some suspects.  I changed to a lighter spring in the mainspring housing and that didn't work. The sear, sear spring, disconnector, hammer and other stuff were just fine.  I tried different ones in the same gun and they still doubled.  It must be something that I hadn't changed.

So at a party last night it donned on me.  If I was on a cartoon - lights would have come down from the heaven and a light bulb would have appeared over my head.  It has nothing to do with me letting the trigger reset.  I was doing the Leatham "slap" and it still doubled.  The problem was that I am not engaging the trigger long enough for the disconnector to work.  If there is not pressure on the trigger when the gun cycles then the disconnector can not work and reengage the sear with the hammer.  The hammer will then just follow the slide.  That's why it would almost only happen when I was shooting fast.

Now I have to get some hex head screw drivers and muck around with the trigger so that there will be pressure on the disconnector long enough for it to work.

My solution (if it actually works) sounds like what 2alpha said "if you put some overtravel and some take up in the trigger...".  If this works I'll give him the $10.  Or if he doesn't want it I could donate it in his name to brianenos.com .

[Dowter]

I think that I may have discovered the culprit part in my gun.  It's the trigger.

One good thing has come from all of this.  For the first time I've bothered to figure out how a 1911 works.  I took all of the pieces apart and played with them to see how they work.  "This thing" does "this" when "that" happens.  Very educational.  

From this I was able to eliminate some suspects.  I changed to a lighter spring in the mainspring housing and that didn't work. The sear, sear spring, disconnector, hammer and other stuff were just fine.  I tried different ones in the same gun and they still doubled.  It must be something that I hadn't changed.

So at a party last night it donned on me.  If I was on a cartoon - lights would have come down from the heaven and a light bulb would have appeared over my head.  It has nothing to do with me letting the trigger reset.  I was doing the Leatham "slap" and it still doubled.  The problem was that I am not engaging the trigger long enough for the disconnector to work.  If there is not pressure on the trigger when the gun cycles then the disconnector can not work and reengage the sear with the hammer.  The hammer will then just follow the slide.  That's why it would almost only happen when I was shooting fast.

Now I have to get some hex head screw drivers and muck around with the trigger so that there will be pressure on the disconnector long enough for it to work.

My solution (if it actually works) sounds like what 2alpha said "if you put some overtravel and some take up in the trigger...".  If this works I'll give him the $10.  Or if he doesn't want it I could donate it in his name to brianenos.com .

[benos]

If the gun/trigger parts are mechanically sound, then 2alpha's advice is right on the money. Moreover, because of the dimensional tolerances between the location of the hammer and sear pin holes of the two frames, especially between an SV and a Para, swapping parts is not a valid test of anything. If you mark the sear nose with a "Blue Sharpie" and assemble the Para, dry-fire it a few times, disassemble it and check contact pattern, and then do the same thing with those parts in the SV, you'll likely see contact patterns are entirely different.

The critical component of a correct trigger pull is the relationship between the sear and the hammer. Meaning - the contact pattern and the actual angle of the sear nose, which controls if the hammer "cocks or decocks" as the sear nose is moving across the hammer notch. (That concept was discussed on other threads some time ago, so let's not go nutty on that here again. It just isn't possible for me to transmit the subtleties of a trigger job on a forum.

[benos]

If the gun/trigger parts are mechanically sound, then 2alpha's advice is right on the money. Moreover, because of the dimensional tolerances between the location of the hammer and sear pin holes of the two frames, especially between an SV and a Para, swapping parts is not a valid test of anything. If you mark the sear nose with a "Blue Sharpie" and assemble the Para, dry-fire it a few times, disassemble it and check contact pattern, and then do the same thing with those parts in the SV, you'll likely see contact patterns are entirely different.

The critical component of a correct trigger pull is the relationship between the sear and the hammer. Meaning - the contact pattern and the actual angle of the sear nose, which controls if the hammer "cocks or decocks" as the sear nose is moving across the hammer notch. (That concept was discussed on other threads some time ago, so let's not go nutty on that here again. It just isn't possible for me to transmit the subtleties of a trigger job on a forum.

[benos]

#Moderation Mode

Moved here

[benos]

#Moderation Mode

Moved here

[fishnfst]

I had the same problem with a ss colt.  I had purchsed the gun used and the previous owner had put oversized hammer and sear pins in the gun.  The hammer pin hole was not reamed straight.  The sear would only contact the hammer hooks on the left side.  The right side was totally untouched.  The only way I could get it to stop doubling at first was to increase the sear and hammer hook engagement which yielded about a 7 pound trigger, which didn't quite float my boat.  I used some sight black on the sear reassembled the gun dry fired it 5 or 6 times thats when I noticed that only one side of the sear was making contact.  I ended up stoning the sear until I had 100 percent contact on both sides.  I then recut my release angles on the sear and joila it worked fine.  At this time I added a tri glide sear spring.   After about 200 rnds it started doing it again.  I though oh no its doing it again.  This time the sear was still making full contact.  The trigger bow was binding  in the channel and was not fully reseting as I released the trigger.  The hammer half cock was also rubbing on the sear as the hammer would fall.  I let the overtravel on the trigger out until the hammer no longer rubbed.  Trigger would still not reset fully.  Ended up changing to the STI lightweight titanium bow trigger and chucked the stock steel trigger again problem was fixed.  What was really interesting was between my stock sear spring and trigger I had a trigger pull right around 3 pounds.  When I replaced the trigger and sear spring with the tri glide parts the trigger pull automatically dropped to 1 and a half pounds.  Between the changes I did not modify the sear or hammer hook engagement at all.  Even at 1 and a half pounds the trigger is still very positive.  I increased the take up a little and can feel a distinct break when I press the trigger.  2500 rounds later no more doubling.

Hope you fix yours good luck and be safe......