Diagnose this kaboom

[HesedTech]

6 hours ago, Yondering said:

It has too much internal taper to use with most 135gr bullets without bulging; that is fact that anyone here can check for themselves. The bulge that bullet and brass combination causes will stick in a lot of 9mm chambers unless they are pretty loose; again something easy to verify,

You’re killing it.

 

I load a lot of CBC 9mm brass and am well aware of the taper and the associated bulging. I load 147s very successfully into CBC (thousands) but it does depend on the profile of the bullet and I load them for CZ and TF, which have some of the shortest loading requirements. Yes CBC is one of the hardest, least forgiving brass to load in 9 mm, but once a load is worked out with the appropriate bullet and powder combo it works fine.
 

I’m not an expert with the model of gun in this thread, but I’m sure many, if not a lot, use recoil springs lighter than stock quite successfully in their pistols.

 

6 hours ago, Yondering said:

It's also proven fact that a loaded round wedged into a chamber without room to release the bullet causes high pressure. Combine that with the use of TG which has very little room for error. 

Yes a fact, assuming the bullet is wedged at an angle or against something blocking it, but the pictures seem to indicate the cartridge was fairly well lined up in the chamber and there was no indication of a squib or blockage in the barrel. 
 

Oh well, opinions is what we all have and a blog thread is hardly a solid in depth place to analyze the problem with just a few pictures. 
 

It’s been interesting. 

[theWacoKid]

My money here is on much higher than proof pressure resulting from an over charge.  The damage and powder used are enough to lead me to this conclusion.  

 

Out of battery firings have a much different failure mode and anything brass related typically doesn't fail like this or show pressures this excessive.

[Yondering]

34 minutes ago, theWacoKid said:

My money here is on much higher than proof pressure resulting from an over charge.  The damage and powder used are enough to lead me to this conclusion.  

 

Out of battery firings have a much different failure mode and anything brass related typically doesn't fail like this or show pressures this excessive.

 

It's not just one or the other. We can see signs of both failure modes in the OP's pictures. 

 

Also, you don't know what caused the high pressure. An over charge is just a guess, but only one of several possible causes. It might have been, but there's not much reason to assume that was the cause, and certainly is evidence indicating it wasn't the only problem. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Yondering

[Yondering]

42 minutes ago, HesedTech said:

You’re killing it.

 

I load a lot of CBC 9mm brass and am well aware of the taper and the associated bulging. I load 147s very successfully into CBC (thousands) but it does depend on the profile of the bullet and I load them for CZ and TF, which have some of the shortest loading requirements. Yes CBC is one of the hardest, least forgiving brass to load in 9 mm, but once a load is worked out with the appropriate bullet and powder combo it works fine.
 

I’m not an expert with the model of gun in this thread, but I’m sure many, if not a lot, use recoil springs lighter than stock quite successfully in their pistols.

 

Yes a fact, assuming the bullet is wedged at an angle or against something blocking it, but the pictures seem to indicate the cartridge was fairly well lined up in the chamber and there was no indication of a squib or blockage in the barrel. 
 

Oh well, opinions is what we all have and a blog thread is hardly a solid in depth place to analyze the problem with just a few pictures. 
 

It’s been interesting. 

 

It's clear you really don't understand any of what I'm talking about and aren't even trying to think about it. Thanks for your comments though, it's always nice to have someone who doesn't understand something jumping in to tell those who do that they're "overthinking it" and "you're killing it". 

 

The issues with CBC brass have nothing to do with finding an appropriate load. The base of a bullet seated into the case taper causes a bulge. How is that not clear? 

 

An oversized round wedged into the chamber to cause high pressure has nothing to do with anything blocking it or the round being at an angle. Seriously, try to understand this stuff better before pulling out the snarky attitude, please. Your comments are not interesting, just toxic arrogance. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Yondering

[yigal]

check this.

if case exposed more than 6mm from the rim it's out of specs.

Edited September 29, 2019 by yigal

[HesedTech]

7 hours ago, Yondering said:

It's clear you really don't understand any of what I'm talking about and aren't even trying to think about it. Thanks for your comments though, it's always nice to have someone who doesn't understand something jumping in to tell those who do that they're "overthinking it" and "you're killing it". 

You have no idea what I understand, how many rounds I’ve loaded, or the problems and successes I’ve experienced, so please hold the insults back.

 

When someone disagrees with you it’s best to not try and show or express your superior “knowledge” on an internet blog and this comment is uncalled for:

 

7 hours ago, Yondering said:

Seriously, try to understand this stuff better before pulling out the snarky attitude, please. Your comments are not interesting, just toxic arrogance. 

Please back off and allow others to say you may be wrong and their experience may be different.

Edited September 29, 2019 by HesedTech

[theWacoKid]

10 hours ago, Yondering said:

 

It's not just one or the other. We can see signs of both failure modes in the OP's pictures. 

 

Also, you don't know what caused the high pressure. An over charge is just a guess, but only one of several possible causes. It might have been, but there's not much reason to assume that was the cause, and certainly is evidence indicating it wasn't the only problem. 

 

Nah, it's one thing. Titegroup and over charge. A tight piece of bulged brass doesn't cause pressure like that, it just shoots and may fail to extract. If it's out of battery it may blow out the base some but that relieves pressure not fire forms the base into the breech face under insane pressure. 

[CrashDodson]

We did some testing and used a new sig x5 legion top end on the original  x5 frame and the slide no longer hangs out of battery when slowly allowing the slide to return forward.  

 

We also tested a friends drop in barstow barrel and a drop in KKM barrel at nationals and the slide fully returns to battery along with more of the casing going into the chamber of those after market barrels.  Using eyes only, as we didn't have any way to measure the barrel, the stock x5 barrel could be tuned to resolve the possible out of battery condition by removing some material from the lug (I assume thats what you call the lock up part of these barrels).

[Yondering]

On 9/29/2019 at 5:47 AM, HesedTech said:

You have no idea what I understand, how many rounds I’ve loaded, or the problems and successes I’ve experienced, so please hold the insults back.

 

When someone disagrees with you it’s best to not try and show or express your superior “knowledge” on an internet blog and this comment is uncalled for:

 

Please back off and allow others to say you may be wrong and their experience may be different.

 

Um, pot meet kettle. Your first line in this thread was an insult, completely unprovoked, and you continued that with your other replies. You have no justification to preach at me about insults. 

 

As to saying you didn't understand what I'm talking about - your attempts to contradict me had nothing to do with the problems I was describing, indicating you genuinely did not understand what I was saying. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Yondering

[HesedTech]

5 hours ago, Yondering said:

Your first line in this thread was an insult, completely unprovoked, and you continued that with your other replies. You have no justification to preach at me about insults. 

 

Ok Mr. Yondering, being a technical oriented type of person I think you will see how far you've misrepresented this.

 

Here's me first post on this thread and you might notice I included some of your ideas:

 

 

"Hmm could have been a combo of the barrel and overcharge. 

 The marks on your from the slide are huge compared to the others posted.  

 You didn’t mention your reloading process, press and such. "

 

And then this:

 

"This^^^

 

I think you all are over analyzing/thinking this. I’ve seen unsupported cartridge discharge (I’m talking not even in a gun) and it by no means had this much damage. 

 

While the gun may not have been fully locked up the damage is far too great for anything other than an over charged cartridge. The gun springs should have nothing to do with it, assuming the barrel was fully locked up.

 

CBC brass is as strong as any other, the cartridge was loaded with TG which could leave room for extra powder, and any  reloading press can double charge if the operator makes a mistake.

 

Good pictures though and they generated a lot of interesting comments."

 

And again:

 

"You’re killing it.

 

I load a lot of CBC 9mm brass and am well aware of the taper and the associated bulging. I load 147s very successfully into CBC (thousands) but it does depend on the profile of the bullet and I load them for CZ and TF, which have some of the shortest loading requirements. Yes CBC is one of the hardest, least forgiving brass to load in 9 mm, but once a load is worked out with the appropriate bullet and powder combo it works fine."

 

And you responded:

 

On 9/28/2019 at 11:00 PM, Yondering said:

It's clear you really don't understand any of what I'm talking about and aren't even trying to think about it. Thanks for your comments though, it's always nice to have someone who doesn't understand something jumping in to tell those who do that they're "overthinking it" and "you're killing it". 

 

On 9/28/2019 at 11:00 PM, Yondering said:

Seriously, try to understand this stuff better before pulling out the snarky attitude, please. Your comments are not interesting, just toxic arrogance. 

 

I've underlined all the names and insults you have thrown at me and tried to do the same from my posts. In the end I believe you owe me an apology for the name calling.

 

I am personally sorry you took the comments "over analyzing/thinking this' and "You're killing it" as insults, because they were never meant to be that. They meant exactly what I wrote; I feel, as do others who posted on this thread, you have far to complicated the issue, which returns me to my very first post; I believe it possibly was a combo of an overcharged cartridge and the barrel. 

 

The balls in your court.

[Yondering]

59 minutes ago, HesedTech said:

I am personally sorry you took the comments "over analyzing/thinking this' and "You're killing it" as insults, because they were never meant to be that.

 

Nah, you knew what that meant when you wrote it. The "sorry you took offense to my insults" thing is a real slimy move; that may work for you on other people but not here. 

I don't owe you anything, and didn't call you any names anyway. If I'm sorry for something, it's that the OP's thread got ruined.

 

I see nothing productive left for either of us in this thread; I'm done. 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Yondering

[HesedTech]

2 hours ago, Yondering said:

 

Nah, you knew what that meant when you wrote it. The "sorry you took offense to my insults" thing is a real slimy move; that may work for you on other people but not here. 

I don't owe you anything, and didn't call you any names anyway. If I'm sorry for something, it's that the OP's thread got ruined.

 

I see nothing productive left for either of us in this thread; I'm done. 

Yondering,

 

Too bad.

 

Maybe we’ll run into each other someday in WA. at an area 1 match and you’ll find I meant everything I wrote to you and the only  “move” I have is honest and straight up, no slime at all.

 

And please quote me as it was written, and not imply or read anything else, it’s a bad habit for blog communication.

 

Thank you anyway. 
 

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by HesedTech