Two Alpha's & One No-shoot

[terrydoc]

What was the no shoot doing 3 ft away from the shot array? was it next to other targets?

[Stuntman]

6 hours ago, mreed911 said:

One clarifying question: Had the NS been previously hit and pasted or was it pristine?

 

And a geometry question: There's NO PLACE in the stage that the no-shoot would have been behind any other target from the shooter's perspective?

 

And a math question: Is the hole the same diameter as the shooter's bullet?

 

Probably not pristine, don't recall exactly except there were no other taped penalty shots within several inches of this one.

There were locations where the NS would have obscured the shoot target in question.

Yes, NS hit same diameter as shooters.

 

1 hour ago, HCH said:

And was one of the alpha hits missing a grease ring, or look different than all the other holes in targets from that shooter?

 

Not missing grease ring nor looked different.  And keep in mind no one believes or asserts a pass-through the NS occurred.  The location where the target was engaged was known and there was no way to make a pass-through line up, nor did the round ricochet off lath or anything else.

 

11 hours ago, DKorn said:

I’d say it’s most likely that I’d give the shooter a reshoot - how do I know whether  the unposted hole was the one in the no shoot or one of the alphas? Unless I have another way to know for sure (different caliber holes, other evidence, etc.), if the shooter only fired 2 rounds that could’ve caused those 3 holes, I’m unable to determine an accurate score and therefore the shooter must reshoot. 

 

Now that I understand 9.1.4 applies to both targets and no-shoots, I'm coming around to this.

[DKorn]

18 hours ago, Stuntman said:

Now that I understand 9.1.4 applies to both targets and no-shoots, I'm coming around to this.

 

It’s even simpler than that. Take a look at the glossary for definitions of “no-shoot” and “target”. They explicitly state that a no shoot is a type of target and that targets refers to both no-shoots and scoring targets. 

[Stuntman]

On 8/9/2019 at 5:58 PM, terrydoc said:

What was the no shoot doing 3 ft away from the shot array? was it next to other targets?

 

Just sitting there   but not next to any other targets.

By locating no-shoot uprange from shoot target, very little of shoot target was visible from start position, maybe only D zone.  Shooter had to move down range and laterally for A zone of  shoot target to became available.  Again, in this scenario there is no debate where the shoot target was engaged and no pass-through occurred.

 

While I think everyone knows the no-shoot was caused by a previous shooter I'm not sure it's sufficiently obvious to not require a reshoot per 9.1.4

 

 

[Joe4d]

You either know the shooter hit the no shoot or you dont. Sounds like in this case You KNOW the shooter couldnt have hit the no shoot.
You dont have to know where the hole came from. It isnt relevant. 
9.1.4 You know what the shooters score is so arnt required to reshoot it
Sounds to me in the OP it IS obvious which ones were the shooters
 

[Schutzenmeister]

Please remember, the last lines in 9.1.4 clearly state "[…] targets must be scored as is, using the actual target as the basis for the scoring call."  If there's a hole in a target, be it scoring or no shoot, you're required to score it based on the evidence on the target … i.e., there's a hole there!  However, earlier in the rule it also states "[…] the Range Officer must judge whether or not an accurate score can be determined."  (referring to an unrestored target …)  This is a case where the RO is not only permitted by rule, but required by rule to exercise judgement.  If the RO has adequate evidence to determine the current shooter DID NOT put that hole in the NS, then he doesn't score it.  (But he must make DAMNED SURE it gets pasted before the NEXT shooter!!!)