.38 Special Minor Loads...

[revchuck]

Folks - I'm looking to develop a .38 Special Minor load for IDPA using 158 grain RNLs and a four inch barrel. I've been using 4.1 grains of Titegroup, and it works well and burns cleanly, but it's a +P load and I now have the only .38 Special I've seen with flame cutting on the top strap. Some of us on this forum have completely worn out K frames shooting this kind of ammo.

Has anyone had any luck developing a standard pressure load that will push a 158 grain RNL ~830 fps from a four inch gun?

Any suggestions on a powder that might work for this? I'd like something clean burning and commonly available, preferably not VV (yeah, I'm cheap!), but I'd consider VV if it might work.

TIA!

[Carlos]

Flame cutting in a .38 special with Titegroup: hmmm, I suspect that Titegroup's 37% Nitro content might have something to do with this. TG burns hot. Its got the highest nitro content of the double-base pistol powders according to Hodgdon.

Possible cure? Single base powder or a cooler-burning (possibly slower burning) double base. Let's look at the former:

V V is out due to cost. That leaves:

-IMR: there is data for .38 with the new Single base, fast burning Trail Boss. I tried it last night in another caliber. Trail Boss is specifically designed for LEAD bullets and you specified "RNL" which equals Round Nose Lead. It was unusually clean burning. Accurate too - and also CHEAP.

Might just work out for Minor .38 special.

Here is the link to the free data:

http://www.imrpowder.com/data/handgun/trailboss-feb2005.php

Looks like w/ a 158 grn SWC you can reach 804 FPS for a power factor of 127; not sure what your bullet & particular gun will do. Seems like very safe powder because it is so bulky that a double charge is impossible. D.

[Carlos]

Another option might be the Scotts Solo 1000 but its hard to find around here. Try a shotgun club maybe.

[revchuck]

Carlos - Thanks! I was thinking about SR 4756. How does Trail Boss run through a powder measure?

[Carlos]

I have only tried it in my older Dillon 650; meters GREAT and worked as advertised by IMR/ proper, accurate metering.

Since you get lower/softer perceived recoil with a fast burning powder (and cleanliness IS important for a recolver) you might also consider straight Clays - though it is a double base powder.

[Harmon]

the powders that are KING in 38 special are bullseye and W231.

i have a feeling CLAYs is gonna be running +p pressure for minor power special loads...maybe not though.

7625 will probably work good too! and it seems to be plenty cheap.

[cooper_999]

Has anyone had any luck developing a standard pressure load that will push a 158 grain RNL ~830 fps from a four inch gun?

Any suggestions on a powder that might work for this?  I'd like something clean burning and commonly available, preferably not VV (yeah, I'm cheap!), but I'd consider VV if it might work.

TIA!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I´ve used Accurate #5 for my 586 4" - with plated and Lead Bullets nice results - something about 5,6 grs of AA#5 - an older AA Manual shows 5,9 max for 158grs lead

DVC!

Sascha

[JohnRodriguez]

The load use for my 38 specials is:

160 gr billy bullet

4.0 gr VVn310

and out of a 5.5" barrel it goes 877 fps

out of a 5" it is doing 850 fps

don't know for a 4", but it might be close

you can load about 7000 rounds for a #4 can, and that's about $10 worth of powder every 1000 rnd. and for VV310 being the fastest burning powder on the chart, it does not get very hot like titegroup does, that's why I stopped using it.

[revchuck]

Sasha and John - Thanks!

John wrote:

VV310 being the fastest burning powder on the chart, it does not get very hot like titegroup does, that's why I stopped using it.

John - Which one did you stop using?

[AZ38super]

Titegroup is what John had stopped using...he comes over to shoot with us on a regular basis.

Take a look at Cowboy action loads, many powder companies are producing data for cowboy loads now. You are asking for upper end data but it will help you out.

I used VV 330 with a 135gr Billy Bullet in my 6" S&W for a great shooting load or

VV N320 @ 4.8 with the 135 gr worked well also.

[TMC]

5.1 of 4756 with plated 158's makes 128pf out of my 5" 627, and its much cleaner than TG which I used to use.

[JohnRodriguez]

titegroup is correct on the powder I used before.

3 years ago when i first got my 38 super, I use to reload with a border shift like Jerry M. does. that was untill I burned the heck out of my middle finger on the forcing cone while reloading, then I changed my reloading style and switched to VV. On the plus side I can reload both ways and I don't burn my fingers any more. The bad side is I occasionally punch holes in my weak hand.

good luck with you choice, and if you get me your e-mail I'll send you my data on 38 special loads (135gr and 160 gr bullets and vv 310,320, and 340)

[revchuck]

Guys - Thanks again! I'm going to give 4756 a try, since I have to order VV powders myself, and after the shipping and hazmat, that's about $85 for a two pound can to try it. I should be able to find 4756 locally; get a half pound can, see if it works for me, then buy a five pounder if it does.

John - Just in case I find some VV powder in my travels, I'm going to email you and get the data you have.

TMC - What was your OAL?

[TMC]

TMC - What was your OAL?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I use 38 Long Colt brass so that changes things a bit. The OAL is 1.32 but it doesn't seem critical. I made them as short as possible so they go in the cylinder faster. The Rainier round nose bulets I use do not have a canuler (sp)?, the little crimp band arount the bullet I would typically use as a gauge.

[Ted Murphy]

Winchester 231 with 147 grain LTC makes 130 PF without going +P.

Ted

[Gulf690]

3.3gn of Clays with 137gn lead in a .38 case makes 125pf from my 4" 586. It seems to meter well and it burns absolutely clean. I also use 2.4 gn of this for the occasional paper target load and it gets around 90pf.

gulf