Seeking suggestions on how I should modify load

[Steve RA]

Glad it finally worked for you !       

[IDescribe]

18 hours ago, PaleoMan said:

5.0gr...

std dev = 37.07

 

5.2gr...

std dev = 30.36

 

5.3gr...

std dev = 24.59

 

Any chance of your recording your actual strings here shot by shot, so we can see what is actually producing these crazy high standard deviations. 

 

 

[PaleoMan]

18 hours ago, IDescribe said:

 

Any chance of your recording your actual strings here shot by shot, so we can see what is actually producing these crazy high standard deviations. 

 

 

Sure. File #42 is the 5.0gr, #43 is 5.2gr, and #44 is 5.3 gr, all with Fiocchi primers, 125gn Precision Bullets, and mixed cases (mostly Blazer and Federal, I think). OAL was 1.136" +/- 0.003".

 

Regards,

 

PCM

 

SR0044 Report.csv

SR0043 Report.csv

SR0042 Report.csv

[IDescribe]

Yeah, just looking at the numbers for the 5.0gr string, I'd guess this is a powder charge issue. Those 923 and 934 feet/sec cartridges are still decelerating like the others, so it's not like it's nust getting a bad read.   It would ha e to get an identicalky bad read 5 times in a row, which seems unlikely.   

 

Those 923 and 934 cartridges are probably correct.  And you're not going to get a velocity swing that big from anything other than powder if it's an accurate reading, which I suspect it is. 

[PaleoMan]

Can you elaborate on the issue? Inconsistent drop? Some issue with type of powder? Other?

I measured 10 drops before and after and it was within 0.2gr for the 5.2 and 5.3 runs and 0.6gr for the 5.0 run. Meaning 0.06gr off per drop.

I did them from lowest to highest load.

Regards.

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[IDescribe]

I mean powder drop variation, from a dirty drop or static or something. 

 

I would run another ladder, and hand-weigh every charge, and make sure they are spot on.   That will be how to determine if it's powder charge variation. 

 

IF you know every charge is spot on, but you still get those swings,. then you know it's not the powder drop

[PaleoMan]

Any suggestions on how to best hand weigh the charges? I'm using a progressive press and don't have a standalone device to drop a charge. Wondering about the logistics of verifying the charge, and ensuring a case is in station 1, when seating in station 4 and crimping in station 5.

 

I have station 1 = size/decap, 2=powder drop, 3=powder check, 4=seat, 5=crimp.

 

Decap, prime, and charge 20 cases, take them out at station 3, pour out charge, measure, and then pour it back in, and reinsert into station 3 and proceed?

 

Concern is if a drop is off. Set aside case, run it through later, doing charge, pour out and measure, pour back in, and then place in station 4 with case in station 1, then place another case in station 1 for station 5 crimping?

 

Is there an easier/less error prone way?

 

 

 

[4n2t0]

3 hours ago, PaleoMan said:

Any suggestions on how to best hand weigh the charges? I'm using a progressive press and don't have a standalone device to drop a charge. Wondering about the logistics of verifying the charge, and ensuring a case is in station 1, when seating in station 4 and crimping in station 5.

 

I have station 1 = size/decap, 2=powder drop, 3=powder check, 4=seat, 5=crimp.

 

Decap, prime, and charge 20 cases, take them out at station 3, pour out charge, measure, and then pour it back in, and reinsert into station 3 and proceed?

 

Concern is if a drop is off. Set aside case, run it through later, doing charge, pour out and measure, pour back in, and then place in station 4 with case in station 1, then place another case in station 1 for station 5 crimping?

 

Is there an easier/less error prone way?

 

 

 

 

When I test a powder for the very first time I always weigh out the charge by hand (not necessary but my OCD thinks otherwise). I want to see what the powder's capable of without the inconsistencies associated with a mechanical drop. I decap and prime the cases then trickle (I use a small piece of paper that I tap with my finger, lol) the charge onto the scale. Once I've filled all the cases I seat and crimp to complete the process. You can use the powder measure and +/- the charge on the scale but I prefer just tapping the powder until I get the desired weight. Always make more rounds than are actually required, that way you can double check the OAL's and discard (but shoot) those which are out too far from the test group.

 

P.S. Remember, this type of thing is only for the super anal shooter, like myself, most people just load, chrono and call it a day.

Edited June 13, 2018 by 4n2t0

[Steve RA]

Use one brand of case and you'll get better results.  It isn't that hard - or time consuming - to sort cases and you can trade or sell the brands you don't use.

[PaleoMan]

2 minutes ago, Steve RA said:

Use one brand of case and you'll get better results.  It isn't that hard - or time consuming - to sort cases and you can trade or sell the brands you don't use.

I do actually sort by case now, and usually stick to well known brands (most times that's what people use, but once and a while I'll see unusually brands of mil cases, which I don't use). However, when I fill the case feeder, if it gets low, I'll refill with another brand, so over time there can be several brands in the feeder.  I can use more diligence and try to go until one is used up and then switch to the next.

 

[Steve RA]

I meant just use one brand.  I use win for 9mm, Fed for small primer .45 and Lake City for .223/5.56.

[PaleoMan]

Ah...gotcha.

 

[IDescribe]

I pull the case at the bullet station (4), pour it into the powder pan on my beam scale, tapping it to make sure all the powder comes out, weight it on the beam scale, trickle powder to get it exact, or pinch out then trickle, then pour it back into the case and put the case back into station 4 and cycle the press.   Repeat. 

[PaleoMan]

I pull the case at the bullet station (4), pour it into the powder pan on my beam scale, tapping it to make sure all the powder comes out, weight it on the beam scale, trickle powder to get it exact, or pinch out then trickle, then pour it back into the case and put the case back into station 4 and cycle the press.   Repeat. 

Thanks. I'll give that a try. Won't do a ladder right now, but will just pick one load and make s batch of 20 to check consistency.

Probably will do Saturday, but may not get to test until next week, as there is a USPSA match Sunday.

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[ddc]

On 6/13/2018 at 4:54 AM, PaleoMan said:

Any suggestions on how to best hand weigh the charges? I'm using a progressive press and don't have a standalone device to drop a charge. Wondering about the logistics of verifying the charge, and ensuring a case is in station 1, when seating in station 4 and crimping in station 5.

 

I have station 1 = size/decap, 2=powder drop, 3=powder check, 4=seat, 5=crimp.

 

Decap, prime, and charge 20 cases, take them out at station 3, pour out charge, measure, and then pour it back in, and reinsert into station 3 and proceed?

 

Concern is if a drop is off. Set aside case, run it through later, doing charge, pour out and measure, pour back in, and then place in station 4 with case in station 1, then place another case in station 1 for station 5 crimping?

 

Is there an easier/less error prone way?

 

 

 

 

This is one of the reasons I held on to my Lee Classic Turret press after I got my 650. 

Load development is a little more straightforward, at least for me anyway, and then after I've got it dialed in I just have to replicate it on the 650.

[PaleoMan]

Argh, got injured playing soccer Wednesday night. Looks like it’ll be a while before I can operate my press. When I’m able, I’ll try measuring  my loads both to see drop consistency, and to see how the std dev is for equal loads. Will be quite a while, so bear with the delay in posting...