Marine Corps moves to adopt M17/M18

[yigal]

As we say, a winning horse does not change.
That's why our army does not replace the Glock

[Rudukai13]

8 minutes ago, yigal said:

As we say, a winning horse does not change.
That's why our army does not replace the Glock

 

...What? I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at here. When has the Army ever used Glocks?

 

Also, the whole "Sig and Glock made it to the final round of testing and Glock lost" kind of counters your point outright, so...

[yigal]

1 hour ago, Rudukai13 said:

 

...What? I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at here. When has the Army ever used Glocks?

 

Also, the whole "Sig and Glock made it to the final round of testing and Glock lost" kind of counters your point outright, so...

a am not from USA.

[RJH]

3 hours ago, Low_Speed said:

Who and how many people got shot? Please provide information. I have yet to see any information on this. You see a lot of this in Sig Talk. Most of it is conjecture.

Usually, light primer strikes are caused by bad/defective ammo.


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Google Dallas police officer shot by SIg 320, then Google can sig 320 go off if dropped.  There are several videos and articles of it happening, and I am not talking about the people hitting them with a hammer.  Light strikes also happen from weak springs, dirty striker channels, and guns that don't lock all the way up.  I have never seen quality ammo fail at the rate that I saw the sig 320s fail at the matches I am talking about

[RJH]

3 hours ago, Low_Speed said:

You forgot the important word “voluntary” which means if you haven’t had a problem and don’t think it’s a problem then you don’t have to do the upgrade.
Yeah, it sounds like you’re trying to be a jackass and succeeding.

Look, the gun has been in the public’s hands for what? 5 years now and it’s had one possible issue that no one can truly confirm.



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Look, I am not getting in an internet pissing match with you, if you trust them totally, drop a loaded early model with it angled toward you, I won't.  Notice I also said they would probably get everything worked out.  I looks to me like you are a sig fanboy, which seem to about as rabid as glock  fanboys, and that is fine, but to say there is/was no issue, or it is always the ammo is at fault is classic fanboy syndrome.   The Sigs (plural) that I saw fail at a matches were stock and using quality ammo (wwb and federal) ammo that worked in other guns.  Sometimes guns need some work, even sigs and glocks.

[Low_Speed]

 
Look, I am not getting in an internet pissing match with you, if you trust them totally, drop a loaded early model with it angled toward you, I won't.  Notice I also said they would probably get everything worked out.  I looks to me like you are a sig fanboy, which seem to about as rabid as glock  fanboys, and that is fine, but to say there is/was no issue, or it is always the ammo is at fault is classic fanboy syndrome.   The Sigs (plural) that I saw fail at a matches were stock and using quality ammo (wwb and federal) ammo that worked in other guns.  Sometimes guns need some work, even sigs and glocks.

I trust them enough that I carry mine everyday. The guns have been dropped and passed standard test. 5 years out in the wild with 500k of them out in the public’s hands and until YouTube superstars repeatedly doing stupid stuff you only heard of one incident. The thing started because DPD heard a rumor and it took off from there.

Not a fanboy. Just hate it when people hyperbolize.


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[RJH]

5 minutes ago, Low_Speed said:

I trust them enough that I carry mine everyday. The guns have been dropped and passed standard test. 5 years out in the wild with 500k of them out in the public’s hands and until YouTube superstars repeatedly doing stupid stuff you only heard of one incident. The thing started because DPD heard a rumor and it took off from there.

Not a fanboy. Just hate it when people hyperbolize.


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I had the cops mixed up, it was a Stamford,  Connecticut cop that sued sig for a dropped gun shooting him, not exactly a rumor.  Beretta never admitted fault for the slides flying off, but beretta did an upgrade just like SIg. 

 

Trust me, I knew exactly what kind of gun you carried.  And calling someone a jackass for listing a verifiable fault with a pistol is kinda the definition of a fanboy

[Low_Speed]

 
Google Dallas police officer shot by SIg 320, then Google can sig 320 go off if dropped.  There are several videos and articles of it happening, and I am not talking about the people hitting them with a hammer.  Light strikes also happen from weak springs, dirty striker channels, and guns that don't lock all the way up.  I have never seen quality ammo fail at the rate that I saw the sig 320s fail at the matches I am talking about

I know the story. I called DPD’s PIO and talked to the officer’s the wrote their statement on the matter. No officer at DPD was shot. The equipment manager saw the first YouTube video (which has since been removed) and decided to not allow officers to carry it. When you get down to it the decision was a preemptive safety precaution. After talking to Sig Representatives he allowed the sale on the police program.


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[Low_Speed]

 

I had the cops mixed up, it was a Stamford,  Connecticut cop that sued sig for a dropped gun shooting him, not exactly a rumor.  Beretta never admitted fault for the slides flying off, but beretta did an upgrade just like SIg. 

 

Trust me, I knew exactly what kind of gun you carried.  And calling someone a jackass for listing a verifiable fault with a pistol is kinda the definition of a fanboy

I called you a jackass because you used it as a descriptor of what you didn’t want to be but you were acting like one anyway. No worries though.

 

And the verdict is still out on the Connecticut cop. We had a cop do something similar here. The PD decided to make M&P .40s the standard but hadn’t standardized on the holster. One officer decided to use his old holster. Apparently, before the officer’s were able to purchase and carry their own weapons and his personal gun was close to the M&P as far as fitting in his old holster. Well except for one important thing. The holster didn’t completely cover the trigger. Well, he went to the gym and as he was changing he threw his duty belt in his locker and something got caught in the trigger well and it went off. The chief ordered holsters for everyone and the guy suspended for a month.

 

Scared the crap out of me. I was on the other side of the lockers.

 

 

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[RJH]

4 minutes ago, Low_Speed said:

I called you a jackass because you used it as a descriptor of what you didn’t want to be but you were acting like one anyway. No worries though.

And the verdict is still out on the Connecticut cop. We had a cop do something similar here. The PD decided to make M&P .40s the standard but hadn’t standardized on the holster. One officer decided to use his old holster. Apparently, before the officer’s were able to purchase and carry their own weapons and his personal gun was close to the M&P as far as fitting in his old holster. Well except for one important thing. The holster didn’t completely cover the trigger. Well, he went to the gym and as he was changing he threw his duty belt in his locker and something got caught in the trigger well and it went off. The chief ordered holsters for everyone and the guy suspended for a month.


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I agrre it could be the holster (they are probably getting sued too), but when sig says there could be an issue (their press release), and issues an upgrade for 500,000 guns that cost them R&D and money for parts and people to repair the guns, and shipping both ways, there is definitely  an issue.  Hell, even the American Rifleman, who never says anything bad about a gun agreed.  

 

So when people say there is no issue they are either slow mentally, or a fanboy.  If they said something reasonable like, "there was an issue but it is being resolved", then I would take them more seriously.  And  jumping on the bad ammo wagon is a dead horse that people like to beat, but that doesn't explain the guns that I have seen with good ammo that wouldn't light primers.  So if someone said, "send it in and they will get it worked out", that would be reasonable, but the fanboy only can reply with, "its the ammo, its the ammo".

 

All guns tend to have some teething issues,  but there seem to be people who can't accept it.  And stating that I don't want to be a jackass is the same as stating no offense, so lighten up Francis.  Seriously, have a good day and don't let your emotions overwhelm you, its just a gun :-)

[Rudukai13]

I think this thread has gotten significantly off-topic from my original intent...

 

Gentlemen, if you'd like to continue a (preferably respectful) discussion on the potential issues with the P320 platform and resulting pending legal cases I invite you to start another thread to do so. Please re-focus on the original intended topic for the purposes of this thread, or I will need to request a moderator delete this thread which I would really rather not do

[RJH]

7 minutes ago, Rudukai13 said:

I think this thread has gotten significantly off-topic from my original intent...

 

Gentlemen, if you'd like to continue a (preferably respectful) discussion on the potential issues with the P320 platform and resulting pending legal cases I invite you to start another thread to do so. Please re-focus on the original intended topic for the purposes of this thread, or I will need to request a moderator delete this thread which I would really rather not do

Dang dad, haha

 

Back on topic, I think they were a little early in adopting and should have let the army get all the bugs worked out. But I am sure it will end up being a good service pistol

Edited April 2, 2018 by RJH

[Low_Speed]

 
 
I agrre it could be the holster (they are probably getting sued too), but when sig says there could be an issue (their press release), and issues an upgrade for 500,000 guns that cost them R&D and money for parts and people to repair the guns, and shipping both ways, there is definitely  an issue.  Hell, even the American Rifleman, who never says anything bad about a gun agreed.  
 
So when people say there is no issue they are either slow mentally, or a fanboy.  If they said something reasonable like, "there was an issue but it is being resolved", then I would take them more seriously.  And  jumping on the bad ammo wagon is a dead horse that people like to beat, but that doesn't explain the guns that I have seen with good ammo that wouldn't light primers.  So if someone said, "send it in and they will get it worked out", that would be reasonable, but the fanboy only can reply with, "its the ammo, its the ammo".
 
All guns tend to have some teething issues,  but there seem to be people who can't accept it.  And stating that I don't want to be a jackass is the same as stating no offense, so lighten up Francis.  Seriously, have a good day and don't let your emotions overwhelm you, its just a gun :-)

Nobody said it wasn’t an issue. It just wasn’t as big of an issue as people in these forums and YouTube made it out to be. The upgrade was voluntary. People had an option because in the grand scale 1 possible out of 500+k isn’t cause to have to check your panties.

And as far as the light primer strikes is concerned you act like WWB is the gold standard of ammo. Not sure about the other ammo you mentioned but I use WWB all of the time because it’s the cheapest thing at Walmart and their range boxes I’ve found at least four bad rounds with bad primers in most boxes. I usually take a couple of DA/SA pistols with me. If I get some rounds with light primers with the striker fired guns I will run them through DA/SA pistols. Do you think that you can verify bad rounds that way?


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[RJH]

I am going to be respectful of the OPs wishes here,  I you feel it is the greatest pistol in the world  I am happy for you.  Put on your Sig t shirt and smile

28 minutes ago, Low_Speed said:

Nobody said it wasn’t an issue. It just wasn’t as big of an issue as people in these forums and YouTube made it out to be. The upgrade was voluntary. People had an option because in the grand scale 1 possible out of 500+k isn’t cause to have to check your panties.

And as far as the light primer strikes is concerned you act like WWB is the gold standard of ammo. Not sure about the other ammo you mentioned but I use WWB all of the time because it’s the cheapest thing at Walmart and their range boxes I’ve found at least four bad rounds with bad primers in most boxes. I usually take a couple of DA/SA pistols with me. If I get some rounds with light primers with the striker fired guns I will run them through DA/SA pistols. Do you think that you can verify bad rounds that way?


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[Low_Speed]

I think this thread has gotten significantly off-topic from my original intent...
 
Gentlemen, if you'd like to continue a (preferably respectful) discussion on the potential issues with the P320 platform and resulting pending legal cases I invite you to start another thread to do so. Please re-focus on the original intended topic for the purposes of this thread, or I will need to request a moderator delete this thread which I would really rather not do

Sorry. Back on track.


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[Rudukai13]

Much appreciated!

[Rudukai13]

http://soldiersystems.net/2018/04/02/sig-p320-completes-government-10000-round-first-article-testing-with-zero-issues/

 

New data relevant to this topic;

 

"It’s very rare for a new piece of equipment to complete First Article Testing with zero deficiencies. It sounds like SIG has been learning from past issues and upping their game."

 

Testing parameters included firing 10,000 rounds through each of six individual sample pistols, along with a six-axis drop safety test - With zero malfunctions or failures. This testing is assumed to be in preparation for the adoption of a P320 variant by the Department of Homeland Security.

 

That variant, likely to be titled the "Pro Series", will be a mix-match of the MHS slides (both 3.9" and 4.7" barrels) with a nitron finish paired with the X-Series grip module;

 

http://www.quanticotactical.com/asp/itemDetail.asp?dispItemNum=6098&type=M&CMN=Sig Sauer LE/Military&CMNum=206&CMSNum=969&CMSN=P320

 

[Rudukai13]

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/19426/all-us-military-branches-including-the-coast-guard-are-buying-the-armys-new-pistol]http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/19426/all-us-military-branches-including-the-coast-guard-are-buying-the-armys-new-pistol

 

This is the first confirmation I've seen that all the branches of the military - Including the Coast Guard - plan to adopt the M17 and/or M18 platform.

 

Each branch and certain units within those branches will probably request different special variants of the pistol, but given the inherent modularity in the P320 architecture that shouldn't be much of a hassle (and was the stated purpose of the MHS program from the start; one platform that can be modified to work to fill every need and niche within the armed forces)

[Rudukai13]

http://soldiersystems.net/2018/04/12/danish-armed-forces-begins-fielding-sig-p320-x-carry/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

 

Danish Armed Forces adopting P320 variant as standard-issue. Looks like using a combination of the X-Carry grip module and either the M17 or M18 MHS slide, for full size and compact options

 

Edited April 12, 2018 by Rudukai13